No.501
If Pu had bad PR but was good at war, like Taliban, it would be:
"Haha, whatcha gonna do about it, libs?"
If Pu had good PR but was unsuccessful in wars, like Arabic countries, it would be:
"How dare you support that fascist American puppet, libs?"
He managed to fail in both and western leftists give out blue screen and mumble
"Actually… capitalists did it…. somehow…."
But maybe there is still a chance for him to overcome Ukraine and return to the pantheon of based leaders of global south.
In other news:
https://meduza.io/en/news/2023/02/22/evgeny-prigozhin-blames-wagner-group-casualties-on-defense-ministry-demands-ammo-for-wagnerhttps://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/02/23/russias-wagner-chief-announces-ammo-delivery-after-row-a80320 No.511 KONTRA
>>50180km long convoy will reach Kiev in 2 weeks and will prevent *elensky from getting nuukz.
Trust the plan.
(Actually Bakhmut is finally in operational encirclement.)
No.521 KONTRA
>>518You know me. Sensible, non-ironic political discussion is my forté.
No.529
Why did putin ruin our based geopolitical analysis by actually starting a war, leftiebros?
He was only supposed to pretend to invade so that the west looks bad.
No.647 KONTRA
>>643Is there a joke in there or do you only post news consisting of random twitter posts?
No.690
Today I was thinking about mock ranks/salutes.
German has stuff like Gefreiter Arsch, Feldwebel Fotzenstecher, etc.
Anglos have Private Parts, Major Boobage, Corporal Punishment, General Knowledge, etc.
But what do russians have? I would assume there's a lot of that kind of stuff, but I don't know of any.
No.701
>>690I've only heard of gensec of toilet (генсек параши):
> In the prisons of Omsk, Irkutsk, Novosibirsk, the general secretary of the bucket (the chamber toilet bowl) - is often elected in the cells. They do not necessarily choose from imps or pederasts, often from men. The general secretary of the bucket is entirely responsible for toilet. At the same time, they are brought to the state of madness. Everyone who goes to the bucket for big and small needs is obliged to take permission from the Secretary General, that is, ask in full: 'Comrade General Secretary of the bucket, can I visit the bucket?', The Secretary General must answer in full: 'Please visit my bucket'. Leaving the bucket, the visitor asks: 'Comrade general secretary of the bucket, may I leave the bucket?' The general secretary is obliged to answer: 'Thank you, please leave my bucket.' And so answer everyone. If there are ten to fifteen people in the cell, the Secretary General can sleep for a couple of hours at night. But what if there are one hundred and twenty people in the cell? You say that you can not answer. Try not to answer, you are being watched - if you do not answer, they beat you, strangle you, and lower you. Life's hard for such general secretaries. No.704
>>511> (Actually Bakhmut is finally in operational encirclement.)Yes, situation there doesn't look good for Ukraine.
No.738
Can we have some war crime footage?
No.750 KONTRA
>>738Unpossible because neither side has committed any war crimes so far if you ask them.
Cleanest war in history!
No.1032
Finnish media was reporting that the prime minister had promised to send our F-18s into Ukraine. But what she really said was that we could start discussing the possibility. I'm going to sue the fake-news-media for pain caused by the disappointment.
>>511>Actually Bakhmut is finally in operational encirclement.It's been over two weeks. Did it fall yet?
No.1033 KONTRA
>>1032Soon™.
Welthaupstadt Bakhmut will soon™ be captured by the Russians.
No.1056 KONTRA
AFU is deploying fresh troops and equipment to the south west of Bakhmut, reportedly as a counterattack to relieve the city and stop the Russian advance.
I read it on twitter so it’s probably true.
It’s over.
No.1072 KONTRA
>>1057Technically it's true that Zelensky is having more troops committed to the defence of Bakhmut despite the recommendations of his general staff (and the US attachés) to the contrary.
If it wasn't le symbolic battle the Hohols would have given up on Bakhmut by now probably.
No.1112
Would you like to read some more thoughts from western academia?
>The contrast with what might have been is hard to overstate. Instead of invading Ukraine, the Russian government could have offered a vision of a secure country with a high degree of strategic autonomy and inclusive economic growth, resulting in Norwegian-level wealth, Japanese-level life expectancy, and science that, among other things, would enable it to be a leading power in addressing climate change and pursuing the next frontiers in space exploration.I find it strange the kind of gulf that exists between East and West regarding Russia. It's like to two perceive the world we live in as a mystical afterlife but only Russians think they might be in hell.
>>1072I suppose it really depends on the K/D ratio. Maybe Zelensky is getting his strategy from Rorke's Drift.
No.1152
>>1112> some more thoughts from western academiaShiet, turns out that my nostalgic rants on EC would qualify as "thoughts from western academia"
> the Russian government could...In such Russia Putin and his clique would be in prison. Turning Russia into a shithole is beneficial for them even if it isn't a conscious decision. (but attacking Ukraine was still unnecessary)
> It's like to two perceive the world we live in as a mystical afterlife but only Russians think they might be in hell.Citizens of the Russian Federation who behaved badly in this life will end up in the Russian Federation again after deathThough to be fair, there are many worse shitholes on Earth, we're somewhere in 70-80-th percentile.
> Rorke's Drift.Porke's drift No.1155
According to Darwin, struggle within same niche is the most fierce one.
While Ministry of defense cockblocks Wagner's supplies and Found of fight against corruption exposes Venedictov, at the “Forum of Free Peoples of Post-Russia” — organized, by the way, by the Ukrainian restaurateur Oleg Magaletsky — representatives of the “Revolutionary Tribunal of Ingria” spoke out against the “Republic of Zalesye” (as in this discourse called what Moscow and its environs should turn into) and demanded from them to recognize Uzbek (in Latin script) as the second state language. The demand was justified by the need to "bring down the imperial arrogance from the Russian liberals." As a result Ingrian underground workers were sent to dick.
No.1156 KONTRA
>>1112>Russia could've [buzzwowrds]Ernst pls.
All that boils down to is basically: That Russia should have taken it like a bitch.
No.1169
>>1152It all seems to predicate on the idea that inside every Russian is a middle class liberal waiting to get out. That if only Putin had opened more coffee shops serving oat milk lattes then Russia would've had the plant-based energy to both use it's oil wealth to make everyone rich (but also solve climate change).
It's not that Russia couldn't manage things better, that's not my point. Russia could be better but you have to be realistic on what that would look like.
>>1156The article ends by concluding that it all could've been possible up until it invaded Ukraine in 2022. It's perfectly possible for Russia to be sassy like France.
No.1183
>>1169>It all seems to predicate on the idea that inside every Russian is a middle class liberal waiting to get out. They've been waiting since the shock therapy days.
No.1250 KONTRA
>>1248Start a nuclear war!
Curious case tbh, definitely taking a military aircraft down kinetically. Probably not intentional, but would intent matter if the plane was firing warning shots and accidentally hit the drone? The pilot is lucky to be alive.
No.1251
>>1250Fun fact:
>Mary Ellen O’Connell, a Notre Dame Law School professor and expert on international law and the use of force, noted that by dumping fuel and downing the drone, the Russian pilot was “further polluting the fragile Black Sea”, but she noted the US had not called the interception “unlawful”.
>“In all likelihood the Reaper was conducting surveillance for Ukraine. Under the laws of armed conflict Russia may disrupt such assistance,” O’Connell said.https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/14/russian-fighter-jet-collides-us-drone-black-sea-crash No.1252 KONTRA
>>1251What's the fun and the fact here? :DDD
The fact that a law expert stated her opinion based on "likelihood"s? :D
No.1260
>>1248I call this pilot: Based
Pretty hard Manöver.
No.1493 KONTRA
Been watching Ukrainian drone clips for the last ten minutes or so.
I am posting this here because I don't want to bother gf with it.
Frankly, I don't even know what's going on there, it's always some poor chump(s) getting smoked, with no apparent use to repelling any offensive or invader.
There was even one where they killed like 6 guys at once because it was a bunch of dudes hauling an injured one on a stretcher. Isn't that even a violation of the Geneva convention?
Some of those videos are also dubbed with horrible and edgy dubstep.
I mean yeah, I understand that the Ukies hate the Russians like they have always hated the Russians, or like the Russians hated the Germans and that for the average person it is a fight for their very existence, but this doesn't make it any better.
In fact, I am actually wondering if we will see a new kind of PTSD. Sure, they have artillery and all that, but the time of barrages is over and now instead you will just *maybe* hear some buzz and then it's lights out, provided you're actually properly hit close enough that the concussive force knocks you out. There was also a video of a guy who was apparently hit by shrapnel all over his lower body. He was conscious and crawling away with one obviously functionless leg, and bleeding profusely.
I also don't understand what the purpose of all those scattered foxholes and short trench sections is supposed to be, except making everyone miserable. THere was one video of a guy shooting himself in the face with his gun while being surrounded by a bunch of corpses that had apparently been like that for some time now, and later a drone dropped a grenade in that very foxhole. I don't even know if there was anyone alive in there anymore.
Another one seemed to have hit something combustible because a fire broke out and one severely wounded guy crawled out. The drones even fly close enough so you can see their faces. One guy was even beggin for his life, but they dropped another grenade anyway.
It's crazy just how much they must hate the russians to be able to hunt them down like video game characters even when watching their faces.
But I am just a german. They should show this stuff in Russia and show the people where their government is sending them and what kind of a reaction a total war will cause. They have won the hearts and minds of the Ukies, but not in the way anyone would desire it.
I bet if you gave the Ukies nuclear weapons, Moscow would be glass before dawn.
No.1544 KONTRA
>>511Update from Bakhmut - Russian offensive actions have ceased.
Glory to Ukraine, death to Ziggers and their enablers.
No.1598
>>1033Over two weeks have passed again. Where are we on this?
>>1493>Some of those videos are also dubbed with horrible and edgy dubstep.Not all of it is terrible dubstep though. I found this gem thanks to a drone video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFet6yCeOPk
>I mean yeah, I understand that the Ukies hate the Russians like they have always hated the Russians, [...] and that for the average person it is a fight for their very existence, but this doesn't make it any better.I'm no expert in Ukro-Rus relations, but in light of recent happenings, Ukrainians probably hate Russia a bit more than "like they have always hated". Anyways, the victims of these drone strikes are humans with agency. They had their chances to prevent them from ending up on foreign soil bearing arms, they had their chances to flee the positions they are occupying. You think they wouldn't shoot an Ukrainian soldier walking towards their positions? Sure you can feel empathy for them watching them die like ants, but in all honesty they don't deserve any of it. Save it for Ukrainians killed, injured, tortured and raped, their homes destroyed, forced to live in cold and dark with their utilities destroyed. And whenever this war ends, the suffering wont. All sorts of munitions from cluster mines to explosive traps litter half of Ukraine and will continue to kill and maim people for who knows how long.
Russian leaders should watch each and every one of these drone videos. Maybe some of them would shoot themselves, too.
>>1544Based my man, based!
No.1599 KONTRA
>>1598Soon™.
Welthaupstadt Bakhmut will soon™ be captured by the Russians.
No.1600 KONTRA
>>1598keeping the post up as an elaborate form of self-criticism
No.1601
>>1598>They had their chances to prevent them from ending up on foreign soil bearing arms, they had their chances to flee the positions they are occupying. Da tovarich you know what happens to deserters)))))
But in all seriousness: How many actual volunteers are still there? Having the choice of dying by the enemy's hand or one of your own officers' is not really a choice.
Obviously the russian leadership should all be trialed Nürnberg style, but the regular drug in the trench? I don't know.
And on the other side, being overly sadistic doesn't untorture and unkill all those dead ukies.
Imagine little Nadia asking her dad "What did you do in the war" and he laughs and says "I smoked Russians))))" and then they all laugh... that's just not healthy, even if it was justified.
Don't get me wrong, I am all for self-defense and anyone who hurts someone to get something has lost any right to remain unharmed, but this is just terror and counter-terror.
But as you said, the higher-ups should watch that, and the people believing everything the MSM tells them, maybe there would be actual protests.
No.1602 KONTRA
>>1601>Having the choice of dying by the enemy's hand or one of your own officers' is not really a choice.Forces retreat in all wars all the time. And if your officer doesn't want to retreat that isn't the end of the story. Officer has an "accident" and dies, you get "lost" while taking a shit in the woods, sneak off during the night, accidentally shoot yourself in the foot, and so on. When your (in)actions have led you into a situation where a drone is about to drop an explosive on you and you start pleading to it, it's already too late. What do you think would happen if he was spared by the drone pilot? He's going back to the trenches.
>Obviously the russian leadership should all be trialed Nürnberg style, but the regular drug in the trench?Huh? No, unless they committed a war crime.
>And on the other side, being overly sadistic doesn't untorture and unkill all those dead ukies.It's pretty clear no one should be committing war crimes. There are no upsides for that. Dropping explosives on soldiers is just war, though. I don't think seeing your enemy perish makes anyone a sadist. Could be wrong.
>Imagine little Nadia asking her dad "What did you do in the war" and he laughs and says "I smoked Russians))))" and then they all laugh... that's just not healthy, even if it was justified.Cool story, bro. What the fuck?
>this is just terror and counter-terror.The drone videos are propaganda. Soldiers being killed in combat isn't terror.
No.1604
>>1602> And if your officer doesn't want to retreat that isn't the end of the story. Nice goalpost moving. You talked about "ending up on foreign soil".
I am wondering, why are you not on foreign soil yet, killing russians?
No.1605 KONTRA
>>1604>Nice goalpost moving. You talked about "ending up on foreign soil".There are even more options available to these people BEFORE they end up in Ukraine.
>I am wondering, why are you not on foreign soil yet, killing russians?Great question. Of course everyone opposed to a military action should go fight on the opposing side, otherwise they're hypocrites! Lmao! I've taken my vow to protect this country and I am prepared to defend it with arms. Meanwhile, I can do a lot better working here. I have no personal ties to Ukraine or such grievances against Russians that I'd have to go kill them anywhere I could.
Nice to see you deleted your earlier retarded post to post something even more retarded.
No.1606 KONTRA
>>1605>There are even more options available to these people BEFORE they end up in Ukraine.Yes, such as?
> Of course everyone opposed to a military action should go fight on the opposing side, otherwise they're hypocrites! Wait, I thought you were FOR military action?
Finn, are you drunk?
You shouldn't have made the decision to drunkpost. There are many options available to you for NOT getting drunk.
Also, finally Kontra'ing
No.1607 KONTRA
>>1606>Yes, such as?You really need to have everything spelled out for you? Gee Billy, I don't know, leave the country, hide, don't show up to summons, go to a doctor and make sure you aren't eligible for service,
and so on...
>Wait, I thought you were FOR military action? What? You're making shitposts with no content. Try to address at least some of the points or don't reply.
No.1608
It's easy to take moral high ground while living in Europe, where nothing is required from you, but it's not easy to avoid mobilization, especially if you can't work remotely and can't afford to move from your place of registration. And even contractniks, not all of them are mercenaries, some probably believe that they're fighting for a good cause. Imagine that you live in a small town, majority of your prole social circle believe that Ukrainians are nazis, genociding Donbass for 8 years. And minority keeps quite to avoid persecution. All media on TV and in internet say the same you don't what VPN is and don't speak English. How is person in such conditions supposed to come to conclusion that this war is not for a good cause?
Same thing applies to Ukrainians with their videos. Easy to be humanist from safety, but when some of your relatives were killed, some became refugees, electricity works only for a few hours per day because your infrastructure is being bombed and so on... Offending feelings of invading soldiers is the last thing which you will think about.
So check your privileges.
No.1609
>>1608Should have overthrown Putin while you still had the chance.
Now you must be put down like the barbarous mongoloid dog that you are.
No.1610 KONTRA
>>1608I don't claim it would be easy to avoid mobilization, but that there are ways to do so. For example making sure that you aren't eligible for service could mean that you permanently injure yourself. Ultimately you need to make the decision yourself if it is better for you to join the war or suffer in the way that you choose.
>How is person in such conditions supposed to come to conclusion that this war is not for a good cause?Maybe some can't. Then they go to war, come back or don't. If you really think you're fighting a just war then problems weren't.
>It's easy to take moral high ground while living in Europe, where nothing is required from youExpand on what exactly is required from you, that isn't required from me.
No.1614
>>1612EC has been infiltrated by a German throwing adhoms left and right. Sad to see this.
No.1615 KONTRA
>>1614Yeah, it's the overly clever one.
No.1616 KONTRA
>>1615> the overly clever one.So, which one?
No.1620
>>1608The fundamental of this mindset is that we want to believe we beautiful humanist westerners wouldn't behave in the same way. We wouldn't, but Russians in 1998 would have lynched Yeltsin over embarking on a genocidal war.
>Another [lie] is that this is a war of defence because Ukraine posed this grave threat to Russia. Some of the soldiers may believe that. And to the extent that they believe that and are motivated by the sense that they are actually defending innocent people, then they are perhaps not blameworthy. Except insofar as they ought to be more sceptical about what they are told by a government that clearly controls most of the media and has shut down a lot of media and internet access.https://novayagazeta.eu/articles/2023/03/26/the-civilians-who-support-the-war-may-be-more-culpable-than-most-of-the-soldiers-enThe extreme of this is that ultimately Russian soldiers, volunteers or otherwise, are also victims of the regime. Another extreme is that the causes of this decay of Russia from soft authoritarianism to a totalitarian genocidal state are societal, and every Russian bears guilt.
I don't have a conclusion.
No.1621 KONTRA
>>1620chechnya doesn't count, dont even try me
No.1623
Interesting how everyone acts like the Finn wasn't starting the hostilities.
As always, it's easy to blame Germany.
No.1626 KONTRA
>>1623What do you mean?
This post
>>1601 was offensively retarded :DDDD and I responded to it as calm as anyone could. If you were offended by the question "What the fuck?" I am truly, truly sorry. I will put on my silk gloves before typing my next reply.
At
>>1604 you claim:
>Nice goalpost moving.When I was responding to your post that talked directly about what happens to deserters and dying by your own officers hand. So I would assume that in that situation one is already on foreign soil. I wasn't moving goalposts, but replying to the things you said. And then you pose the question:
>I am wondering, why are you not on foreign soil yet, killing russians?So at this point we have crossed all borders of a reasonable discussion, when you blame me of dishonest tactics and pose malicious questions. In other words, you start the war.
Anyways, that's just my opinion. I'll respect the verdict given by a jury of my peers (excluding Germans).
No.1627 KONTRA
>>1626>This post >>1601 was offensively retarded :DDDD and I responded to it as calm as anyone could.Matter of opinion and no you didn't.
From the tone of your posts I even got the impression that you take this very seriously and I must wonder whether you have caught some of the 'tism from the other Germans (not me, obviously) on here.
No.1628
>>1610Well, you expect Russians to chop off their legs to avoid mobilization or even to take pitchfork and go to Kremlin with predictable results. Something which you didn't have to do yourself, because you were lucky enough to be born in Finland. Given that you haven't joined Ukrainians in their fight, you're not a hero yourself, and it's safe to assume that you wouldn't match your own standards, be you born in Russia. Moreover, you didn't have enough civic consciousness to stop Finnish company from providing spyware for FSB:
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/28/technology/nokia-russia-surveillance-system-sorm.htmlMy impression is that you don't have enough balls to say: "OK, these people don't deserve to die, but should be killed anyway, because it's a lesser evil". Instead you make up absurd accusations about them.
No.1629 KONTRA
Today Hungary voted for ratifying Finnish NATO application. Thanks, finally. Only Turkey left.
>>1627Get out of the jury box! My lawyer made sure there are no Germans in it.
>you take this very seriously:DDDD
>I must wonder whether you have caught some of the 'tism from the other GermansWho do you think you're replying to?! Aijaijai... Voi näitä Sakemanneja :DDD
But yes, I personally would like to have serious, on-topic discussions on EC on the rare occasion that an opportunity rises. Shitposting
could be contained to the today threda. If I were a mod, I'd ban half of the posters ITT and remove all of
this shit. But I guess nu-EC's moderation
or the lack thereof isn't that different from the last one.
I'll come back to this threda in two weeks to see if Bakhmut has been captured.
Given I'm not banned at the moment :D No.1632 KONTRA
>>1628>Well, you expect Russians to chop off their legs to avoid mobilization or even to take pitchfork and go to Kremlin with predictable results. >Something which you didn't have to do yourself, because you were lucky enough to be born in Finland.I asked what was required from you, that isn't from me. Are you saying that you have chopped off your legs? Or went to Kremlin with pitchforks? I was very specifically talking about you and I. If you're talking about hypotheticals, I too am required to go and die for my country or chop off my legs. Where is the privilege?
>Given that you haven't joined Ukrainians in their fight, you're not a hero yourself, Have I ever claimed to be one? I really wonder what causes you or the German to attack my character. Please, do explain it to me like I'm retarded.
>and it's safe to assume that you wouldn't match your own standards, be you born in Russia.I can start making up things and assumptions about you, too. But what is the point? I, myself would assume that I'd do everything I could to avoid ending up in Ukraine. Given similar life situation as I have now, I would've left Russia a long time ago. Can't make any claims about actually grabbing a pitchfork since I don't know about the situation enough... Or maybe I'd be completely under the spell of Russian media, signing up to fight voluntarily and already lying dead somewhere. It's possible.
>Moreover, you didn't have enough civic consciousness to stop Finnish company from providing spyware for FSB:I've read about Sorm before, and watched some documentary about it. And if I'm not misremembering, Nokia engineers deploying it were in constant contact with Finnish Security Intelligence Service, which in all likelihood was reporting to CIA as well. Finnish technology sales to SU and Russia used to be a fucky situation. One other example with a lot of intrigue behind it is the story of the MIR submarine developed in Finland an sold to SU. With Nokia and SORM I'd assume that my government had the best interest of my country in mind when they explicitly allowed Nokia to work on this. So I don't think you can appeal to my civic consciousness here.
>My impression is that you don't have enough balls to say: "OK, these people don't deserve to die, but should be killed anyway, because it's a lesser evil". Instead you make up absurd accusations about them.Who are we speaking about here? Russian soldiers in Ukraine? I think they do deserve to die. But they don't need to and I don't wish it on them explicitly. Retreat, sabotage, surrender, evade ending up there in the first place, whatever. Given I would find myself in Ukraine fighting for Russia, in a war that I perceive unjust, I don't think I'd go along with it. Though speculating around these things is a bit too rich from me because of the stakes involved in the situation. So I'll spare you from that.
I can see the counterpoint that a Russian believing in a just war isn't morally deserving to die for doing what is right, but from my perspective crossing Ukrainian border with a weapon in your hand justifies killing you in combat. Needless to say killing anyone retroactively, or by war crimes would not be justified as they're not combatants anymore. Definitely
an opinion. Who is the absolute moral arbiter anyways that can decide on what grounds a man should die? I'm assuming that the Russians in support of the war think Ukrainian soldiers deserve to die. Also, what absurd accusations did I make? Be specific.
I do ask that you point out where I'm wrong and why instead of attacking my character. Thank you.
>>1630:DDD
No.1650
In today's post-war political order:
>It’s Time to Bring Back the Polish-Lithuanian Union
>The argument for an explicit political union between the two countries is not based on nostalgia but on shared interests. To be sure, due to four centuries of common history within the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, much of today’s Ukraine (and Belarus) shares far more of its past with Poland than it does with Russia, notwithstanding claims of Russian propagandists to the contrary and notwithstanding the fact that the relationship was oftentimes highly complicated, as illustrated by events of the 17th-century Deluge—most prominently by the Khmelnytsky uprising and its conflicting interpretations by Poles and Ukrainians.
>Fast-forward to the present and to the near future, however. Both countries are facing a threat from Russia. Today, Poland is a member in good standing of the EU and NATO, while Ukraine is keen to join both organizations—not unlike the Grand Duchy of yesteryear, eager to become part of mainstream, Christianized Europe. Even if Ukraine’s war against Russia ends with a decisive Ukrainian victory, driving degraded Russian forces out of the country, Kyiv faces a potentially decades long struggle to join the EU, not to speak of obtaining credible security guarantees from the United States. The poorly governed, unstable countries of the Western Balkans, prone to Russian and Chinese interference, provide a warning about where prolonged “candidate status” and European indecision might lead. A militarized Ukrainian nation, embittered at the EU because of its inaction, and perhaps aggrieved by an unsatisfactory conclusion of the war with Russia, could easily become a liability for the West.
>Imagine instead that, at the end of the war, Poland and Ukraine form a common federal or confederal state, merging their foreign and defense policies and bringing Ukraine into the EU and NATO almost instantly. The Polish-Ukrainian Union would become the second-largest country in the EU and arguably its largest military power, providing more than an adequate counterweight to the Franco-German tandem—something that the EU is sorely missing after Brexit.
>For the United States and Western Europe, the union would be a permanent way of securing Europe’s eastern flank from Russian aggression. Instead of a rambling, somewhat chaotic country of 43 million lingering in no-man’s land, Western Europe would be buffered from Russia by a formidable country with a very clear understanding of the Russian threat. “Without an independent Ukraine, there cannot be an independent Poland,” Poland’s interwar leader, Jozef Pilsudski, famously claimed, advocating a Polish-led Eastern European federation including Lithuania, Belarus, and Ukraine—basically a recreation of the medieval commonwealth.https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/03/26/its-time-to-bring-back-the-polish-lithuanian-union/Man, I don't know. Haven't we had enough empires in Eastern Europe?
No.1718
>>1678I think the plan is still for the west to get distracted by the recession but I'm wondering how bad that is really supposed to get. At what point is everyone supposed to go "ah you know what, fuck it let them have Ukraine"? I'm certainly not going to crack in two weeks.
On the Ukrainian side there's actually been all sorts of deep-strikes going on at the moment that hint the spring offensive is coming any minute. It'll be interesting to see what the plan is now that Russia has spent months laying mines and building fortifications in anticipation. Maybe it will be a meatgrinder and a negotiated peace will be the only alternative or maybe Ukraine will smash through again and it will be game over.
Or China will invade Taiwan and we'll all suddenly have bigger problems.>>1679What I'm wondering is how many of those tanks are actually even useful. Russia seems to be using tanks to fill in for its shortage of mobile artillery which sound all well and good only they've been sitting out for decades collecting rust and while you might by some miracle get a few running there's no fucking way you wouldn't be dealing with engines completely seized up.
Imagine being the mechanic looking at all that and getting some ridiculous deadline. After you've just spent all year getting tanks from the 1970s working.
No.1732 KONTRA
>>1679Also keklel at trident-labd using Leopard 1
at that rate etc...
>>1716Truth hurts
No.1742 KONTRA
Sorry, forgot to Kontra
I had a dream that I killed russians.
I was in some apartment or house or whatever, and there were russians coming through a crawlspace under the floor.
There was a hole in the floor. I don't know what I was doing there, I was not a soldier.
I looked into the hole and saw someone with a helmet coming my direction.
I grabbed the rifle that lay in the hole right in front of me. It was some kind of barebones AR variant without optics or anything and a 10-round mag and I held it into the general direction of the guy crawling towards me.
Some guy pulled me back and said something about "good job, you killed them all".
I woke up with a bit of an uneasy feeling because I have never had dreams about killing people, but then again I have ukrainian ancestors and russians are not people.
Could it be some kind of blood memory coming out? Maybe I should grow my mustache out and get a plait.
No.1744 KONTRA
Some of the most active nazis in Kiev published a petition to their narco-president about “resuming the nuclear status of Ukraine” with the possibility of placing and using foreign (NATO) nuclear weapons by Ukraine.
Why not? Tanks and missiles are being delivered, aircraft are almost ready to be delivered. You look, and they will give up their nuclear weapons. No pity for good people. Moreover, Biden may not remember to whom he gave his suitcase with codes.
And how should our citizens respond to these swinobanderite apocalyptic ramblings? Perhaps in the form of a Russian petition for an immediate preemptive (preventive) nuclear strike in the event that the grandpa with dementia presents his suitcase to the white powder lover. Or inadvertently loses it during his next visit to Kiev.
No.1748 KONTRA
>>1731for the nafobots:
finland was already an empire puppet. formalizing that in name doesn't necessarily change much, will have to see.
a militarized fash ukraine with the unresolved donbass/crimea issues becoming nato was a much worse problem for russia.
the problem in the first place was russia was in a deteriorating position wrt nato. nato was already constantly expanding, and russia was already moving toward "a worse geostrategic position". nato would happily dump finland back into its fake neutrality if it could get ukraine back for them, which means russia's position is better than otherwise.
besides, russia is now aligned with china and the global south and presiding over the end of dollar hegemony and the unipolar order. that is much more important than whether finland decides to jump onto a sinking ship to help sam cope for losing ukraine.
No.1749 KONTRA
>>1748Oh cool, the schizo made it here finally. Welcome.
I see you've finally capitulated and pivoted into claiming that Finland never really mattered. I guess that's an improvement from making schizo predictions how Russia is going to liberate us next.
No.1759
>>1749>pivoted into claiming that Finland never really matteredPivoted? Wait, I thought that was the default position of everyone since the dawn of recorded history.
Like, when has finland ever mattered in the history of the entire world?
No.1762 KONTRA
>>1761The talks of arming Åland are already ongoing internally. There will be no Swedish ascension into NATO. Only their complete and total surrender to Finland :D
>>1759Cope :)
No.1763 KONTRA
>>1761We live in days when the Finnougric holds the whip over both Russian and Swede. Dark days ahead of civilized Europe, all because the uneducated among us assumed the Finns are just some kind of peace loving and serene Scandinavian nation.
No.1885 KONTRA
>>1884Ukrainian* teroras. :D
According to master Wagner it wasn't them but ehh.
:--D Gill all Z-niks
No.1940
>1930's: burn all your crops and starve to death because you hate the idea of helping your fellow man
>1940's: decide to ally with someone who explicitly states that you are a lower race and desires to wipe your entire bloodline off the face of the earth and get massacred during occupation
>1990's: help destroy USSR because muh blue-yellow flag is more important than workers' rights, economic genocide follows
>2020's: suicide charge into Russian bullets en masse for NATO
these niggas really genocided themselves 4 times in 100 years
No.1941 KONTRA
>>1940Preach it brother!
Slava Rassya!
No.2551
>>2108Latest from the frontline:
Bakhmut in operative ENCIRCLEMENT, to fall in TWO WEEKS (probably).
No.2952
>>2951Well fug, where's my sack of wheat, then?
No.2960
>>2951Hypothesis: European governments care about their farmers so much because urbanites don't reproduce, and they manage demographics by subsidizing them.
No.2961
>>2960I have a suspicion that it's just a leftover reflex from the EEC days instead of some demographic masterplan.
No.2972
>>2970>Russian talking head says…I don’t believe it.
No.3139
>>704Reminder that Bakhmut was operationally encircled 2.5 months ago.
No.3140
>>3139Moreover, it was "to fall any time soon" in somewhere in October.
No.3143
>>3141I'm still holding hope that this winter the entirety of Germany will freeze. It'll solve the German question and preserve this society intact for study by future generations.
No.3149 KONTRA
Wagner advances 550m today in Bakhmut. Only 28 commieblocks left on the hands of the Ukrofascists.
Not even the Leopards can save Bakhmut now.
Trust the plan.
No.3157 KONTRA
>>3094I'd like to weigh in here. What Russians refer to as Kaliningrad, or as I've recently taken to calling it, Kēnísībǎo, is in fact historically attested Chinese clay. We know for a fact that in 1945 the city was transferred to Russian SFSR instead of, say, Lithuanian SSR. One salient reason behind this seemingly strange choice of an exclave could be that, it was preceded by its annexation by Russian Empire during the Seven Years' War. In the year of the lord 1757, with Russian army near its gates, Königsberg submitted to, and later got provincialised by Her Majesty Tsaritsa Elizaveta. Little known is that those very troops consisted of Cossacks, Tatars, and most importantly Kalmyks, who did all the heavy lifting. Matter of fact, Kalmyks were so omnipresent that it left a particularly strong impression on one resident of the city named Immanuel Kant*, who later classified Kalmyks as a separate race alongside with Whites, Negros and Americans in his rather advanced race theory published under the title "On the Different Races of Human Beings". Even more important is that a few years later, Tsarist oppression caused a mass exodus of Kalmyks. Most of them returned to their ancestral homeland, Xinjiang, and pledged allegiance to Qing emperor. Their descendants are modern day Torghut Chinese. In short, Bogda Khan's subjects conquered Kēnísībǎo. Although they did so under Russian yoke, after coming collapse of Russia envisaged by geopolitical experts like Peter Zeihan and Kamil Galeev, these lands should be decolonised and returned to their rightful owner, Jade Rod in Khanbaliq.
*aptly nicknamed the Chinaman of Kēnísībǎo
No.3202
Britain announced that it will train fascist pilots from the Ukraine for NATO airplane "F-16". Britain is escalating a special military operation far from it's territory into a world war! This is proof that NATO is at war with Russia, even if they lie about it.
No.3204 KONTRA
>>3202I knew you'd come back, God bless your heart.
No.3221 KONTRA
>>3204How long did it take for him to find out we are here not there? I did not count the days...months?
No.3232
Holodomor didn't happen but it should have.
No.3234
>>3232What are the benefits of holodomor?
No.3238
>>3234No more ukrainians to cry about it.
No.3249
>>3232After hearing Ukrainian lies non-stop, it's hard to believe them about Holodomor. However there are other sources confirming mass hunger in 30s. Probably it was a real thing, but not in UkrSSR.
No.3251
>>3249The red pill is that kazakhs were genocided, while ukrainians were starved accidentally.
No.3252
>>3238Never bothered me. Wouldn’t the easiest solution be to genocide yourself. Thoughts?
No.3305 KONTRA
>>3303Yeap, they did it. They took Bakhmut.
No.3306 KONTRA
>>3305*96% of Bakhmut
I'm hoping it can still knock Verdun off the spot for longest battle.
No.3322
I wanted to make a post about how I became Ukrorealist, but now it will look like I shit on them, because they appear to be losing. I'll wait until their next peremoga to remain epic contrarian.
Shortly speaking, when Ukrainian mocks Russia for lack of freedom of speech, and soon after brags on how he reported pro-Russian acquaintance to secret police that was before 2022!, and no one has ever seen this man again, that really makes you think.
No.3323
>>3307>textbookWhen the textbook is titled "taking a small town in 8 months or more" and the the author is a certain Y. V. Prigozhin.
No.3356 KONTRA
>Ukraine war: Saboteurs cross into Russia's Belgorod, governor says
>A group of saboteurs has crossed from Ukraine into Russia's Belgorod region and clashes there have injured a number of people, Russian authorities say. Local governor Vyacheslav Gladkov said Russian forces were searching for the group, which he said had attacked Grayvoronsky district by the border.
>Kyiv said those behind the ongoing incident were from groups called the Liberty of Russia Legion and the Russian Volunteer Corps (RVC). The Liberty of Russia Legion - a Ukraine-based Russian militia which says it is working inside Russia to overthrow President Putin - said on Twitter on Monday it had "completely liberated" the border town of Kozinka. It said forward units had reached the town of Grayvoron, further east.
>However Mr Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov told Russian news agencies that efforts were underway to eliminate the sabotage group, and said its purpose was to draw attention away from the eastern Ukrainian town of Bakhmut - which a Russian mercenary group claims to have taken control of after months of intense and bloody fighting. "We perfectly understand the purpose of such sabotage - to divert attention from the Bakhmut direction, to minimise the political effect of the loss of Artemovsk [Bakhmut] by the Ukrainian side," he said.
>Ukrainian presidential advisor Mikhaylo Podolyak said his country was watching events in Belgorod "with interest", but "has nothing to do with it. As you know, tanks are sold at any Russian military store, and underground guerrilla groups are composed of Russian citizens," he added.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65358070Would be laff if real. Apparently all hell is breaking loose.
No.3357
>>3356Wtf I love Russians now ⬜️🟦⬜️
No.3368 KONTRA
>>3356They are still there. Dogspeed Free Russians.
No.3788 KONTRA
>>3786Weird, I read that the equipment is not there yet in the amount promised.
Also, the picture looks like it's shopped.
No.3789
You probably missed how Russians destroyed dam controlled by them in order to flood their own fortifications. Ukrainian army tried to save the dam by shelling it from artillery (
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/12/29/ukraine-offensive-kharkiv-kherson-donetsk/ ) but sadly it didn't help.
No.3792 KONTRA
>>3789>10. Until January 1, 2028, technical investigation of accidents at hazardous production facilities and accidents of hydraulic structures that occurred as a result of military operations, sabotage and terrorist acts is not carried out. ))))
http://publication.pravo.gov.ru/document/0001202305310067?index=6>>3788It's real, German made equipment isn't immune to getting destroyed.
No.3794 KONTRA
>>3788I'm afraid it's quite real.
Here's a cringe phonk-edit by the Russian MoD. And the footage from the encounter from the PoV of one of the Bradleys.
No.3796
>>3794>>3792Yeah pretty likely that the equipment will go up in smoke but it still looks shopped maybe because it's zoomed in
No.3956
>>3792B-but muh Tschörmänn Entschinierink!
All of Germany is crying because they have to face the reality that it is worthless overhyped crap the Russians can just blow up!
20% of all the tanks Germany provided has just been blown up in one single failed attack that wasn't even in the main line of defense!
Ukroos would need thousands of tanks to win this, and they get tens!
Westerners must face the fact that hundreds of billions of tax-dollars are being blown up in Ukrainian fields, and in exchange, they see three hohols raising their piss-yellow-blue flag in the ruins of bumfuck, nowhere. In three weeks they will grow tired of it, the support will end and Ukraine will have to sue for peace. The weekness of their fake democracies and the weekness of NATO will have been exposed, they will not be able to bully the entire world anymore! Third and second world countries will not have to take their bullshit anymore!
No.3957 KONTRA
>>3956And this time for real?
No.3965 KONTRA
>>3963Thank dog we all speak moon runes and know exactly what you mean, flexo.
No.3995
>>3994Because raising the ussr flag is a bit different from raising the other flags
No.4044 KONTRA
The Kiev retreat was part of an agreement. Part of…
…A PLAN!
A gesture of goodwill so to speak. Russia is too benevolent. This cruel world doesn’t deserve Holy Russia.
No.4081 KONTRA
Just dropping the based schizo pics.
>>4044Pynya really expected Ukraine to fulfill Minks agreements.
No.4159
It's happening
No.4162
So is this 9D chess or the beginning of a civil war? How realistic is a coup d'etat?
No.4163
>>4162Just yesterday I read that some "expert" is of the opinion that the way Poutine is reacting to Prigozhin is "calculated". It was just the headline of a video though so I didn't watch it.
No.4164
>>4163That what I was reading this morning as well. It could be a 'controlled opposition'. On the other hand I remember reading that some oligarchs/cooperations are building up private armies so that in case of a civil war property an wealth is secured.
No.4166 KONTRA
It’s fucking over. So fucking over. Dammit.
No.4167
>>4166multi-dimensional chess is a psychic hellscape. I really wonder how this will turn out. Do you really stage a coup and bomb around in your own country? Why not, sure. But on the other hand this means binding troops, material etc. completely senseless when you have a hard time accomplishing your goals in the neighboring country. So perhaps Putin's "game" got out of control indeed.
No.4168
>>4167>when you have a hard time accomplishing your goals in the neighboring country. Been living under a rock? Demilitarization of Ukraine has been accomplished))))
No.4169
>⚡️Mikhail Mizintsev, Utkin and Lotus, signed contracts with the MOD under their assault detachments. >Note these are some of Prigozhins top commanders.>>4167Bolshoi Theatre, trust the plan.
No.4171
Ah, so German headlines are misleading as this seems to be not against Putin but just the MoD.
Read that Prigozhin chose this because he faced losing control of Wagner (and his position in the "informational space" because of contracts to be made with MoD by his troops. So it looks like this is real but will perhaps not be successful if people become unfaithful to the Russian state and military command. Anyway, interesting twist.
No.4175 KONTRA
2bh this is the kind of shit that makes me rage quit in a grand strategy game.
No.4179
Batka helped the Russians negotiate with the Wagner Travelling Circus LLC and the Master-chef is now turning back the convoy from Moscow in exchange for sacking Shoigu and Gerasimov.
No.4181 KONTRA
>>4179Is this real or an AI fake? I just came across the audio but I don't speak Russian so
I mean how should that work out? I could hardly imagine they give into his demands. Or: this was a 10D chess move to plunge the world in a giant psyOP everybody ravaging the whole June 24 on how Wagner will kick Putin and civil war is just a step away.
Russians and their behavior is like Russian roulette.
No.4183 KONTRA
>inb4 it was 6D chess and the actual rebel was Shoigu and this was all part of some master plan
No.4187
>>4181I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key.
That key is Russian national interest.
No.4189 KONTRA
>>4187Ach Klaas Clever, will you elaborate what the national interest of this has been? Do you mean Prigozhin came to his sense that this will destroy the overall aim of ukraine war forever? And now he will happily live in Belarus?
No.4193 KONTRA
>>4189Not sure if schizo troll or actual uneducated peasant.
No.4196 KONTRA
>>4189He will live happily in Belarus until the FSB slips him some polonium tea with novichock cookies. (Assuming this wasn’t some 6D chess or whatever the fuck.)
I’m so clueless what the fuck actually happened that I can’t even come up with a contrarian take for this. Like what even was this shitshow?
No.4201
>>4183>inb4 it was 6D chess and the actual rebel was Shoigu and this was all part of some master plan There was no actual rebel. It was all a ruse to lure out the disloyal citizens. They wanted to now who would support a Z coup. Based on people's reactions, they know now.
>>4171The German press, as always, is full of lies. They need propaganda know more than ever as support for this NATO-war is waning. The attention of the do-gooders is turning back to flooding Europe with refugee-niggers straight from the boat, so they need to bow this up to maximum proportions, because they can't have the NPCs go anti-war before the war ends.
> Russian civil war is coming!> Le Putin is finished, just believe me, guys!> It's for real!t. German press-cucks yesterday
No.4202 KONTRA
>>4201Don't know why you are here but it doesn't make any sense since Prigozhin is not against the war, he openly criticizes the Russian military's incompetence. So while Putler might have been finished this would perhaps even have intensified the war in the long run. And the German press did explicity state that this does not mean the end of the war, perhaps an ongoing civil war would have ended it but nobody said that this is what will definitely happened.
No.4203 KONTRA
>>4202>Don't know why you are here but it doesn't make any sense since Prigozhin is not against the war, he openly criticizes the Russian military's incompetence.Are fucking retarded, you imbecile? Do you think I do not know this? The implication of your ridiculously idiotic mental diarrhea is that any coup in Russia would have to be a coup by anti-war elements, which is obviusly (at least to anyone with an IQ above room temperature, it is obvious, but seemingly not to you) bullshit.
This is why I wrote
> who would support a Z coupinstead of
> anti-war coup,> leftist coup,> pro-NATO-coupor any of the like. Z, as in "fanatic supporter of the war, proponent of intensification of the Russian war effort".
Can you grasp that? Or are you too retarded for that, you fucking moron?
>So while Putler might have been finished this would perhaps even have intensified the war in the long run.So what?
>And the German press did explicity state that this does not mean the end of the warSo what?
>perhaps an ongoing civil war would have ended it but nobody said that this is what will definitely happened.So what? Is there any contradiction or connection to anything I wrote, whatsoever?
No, please, do not answer, I do not want to have to read any more of your Zeit-comment-section-tier idiocy.
Also
>Putler>le funny maymay because Putin=Hitler, lol whcih means he is very evil and when he's on the same tier as Hitler, I get to feel less bad about being German xDDDVergangenheitsbewältigungseweltmeister-Tier.
Go hang your self in the closet, spare the world from your existence.
(USER WAS TRANSFERRED TO GULAG) No.4212
>>4189The MoD threats and demands that Wagner is incorporated into their structures culminated in this. Yesterday morning, there was a mutiny and treason but by the end of last night - everything was fine :)
Now Lukashenko gets the head of Wagner as his friend and Moscow's precedent for dealing with military insurrection is forgiving them. The plan continues nonetheless.
No.5023
Before you hear it from someone else:
Poutine is now threatening Poland and referencing CLAY.
No.5024 KONTRA
Strelkov got arrested. How can I trust the plan when shit like this happens to REAL PATRIOTS?
No.5033 KONTRA
>>5032Are you some kind of troll or why did you reply to an age-old banned post? You idiot, you fool, you absolute buffoon.
No.5040
It would be fair to grant Ukrainian soldiers American citizenships after the war. They risked their life and health for United States, therefore they deserve it.
No.5042 KONTRA
>>5033>caring about dates and timeWhy do you publicly embarrass yourself, is this some kind of fetish of yours? Chad that I am it just came to my attention and I made a comment.
No.5662
>>5661Poland is butthurt! It confused itself in its butthurt!
No.5663 KONTRA
>>5661I don't think the Poles actually like the Hohols. They just fucking hate the Russians.
No.5665
>>5662Drinking bleach to make Brussels mad?
Because given number of refugees demand in grain grew much more than supply. So we're talking about extra profits here.
No.5752
America gets SOBERING UPDATE on the status of UKRAINE’s FAILED COUNTERATTACK
WECTERN ALLIES NOW HOPING FOR WINTER even though LEOPARDS are NOT WINTERIZED
COMPLETE and UTTER FAILURE TO BREAK RUSSIA
THE END OF THE WESTERN MYTH
RUSSIA now LARGEST ECONOMY of EUROPE with consistent GDP GROWTH and it’s not even in full WAR ECONOMY yet
The eternal GERMAN’s plan of DRANG NACH OSTEN has been FOILED AGAIN by GLORIOUS RUSSIA
Z
No.5791 KONTRA
>>5752> Vatniks are bragging that Russia is successfully defending against its BorderlandThat's miserable.
No.5825
>>5752>eternal GermanWill Z-oids change its tune when Germany and France get their own Orbán Viktors?
I know Alexander Nevsky was taken out is circulation after Molotov - Ribbentrop. Maybe it's time for a remake to have something to take out of circulation after the fascidtication of Europe is complete? (And to re-publish once god-chancellorette Weidel starts Barbarossa 2.0)
No.5827 KONTRA
>>5825It's quite irrelevant what happens after Barbarossa 2.0 because Anal Lena Bareback isn't planning of leaving any of you pigdogs alive. Moscow will be an archeological site within 5 minutes of the start of the conflict.
No.5876
>>5827Germans are unable to learn from history!
Watch Alexander Nevsky. It explains that of the two dangers (Mongol and German), the German is the bigger. It explains what is wrong with fake democracy (Republic of Novgorod). It has great score, Prokofiev wrote it to atone for the years spent abroad and to confess his all-encompassing eternal love for the Rodina!
Like the Teutonic Knights were destroyed on lake Chudskoe, Hitlers armies were smashed in the winter of 1942.
Watch it!
No.5881
>>5825Europeans rape giraffes in zoobrothels. But they're not that evil people per se. You must take into account that after collapse of USSR (the greatest geopolitical catastrophe, the creation of unipolar world) Europeans were buck-broken by USA. It's Americans who force them to support nazi regime in Ukraine and lay sanctions on Russia. Eventually Europeans will rebel against their masters across the sea, elect coalition of AFD and Die Linke and then Eurasia will live happily and peacefully.
Think of it, by 1991 Putin was an adult KGB officer and worked in Dresden, in a USSR-aligned country. That's when his mindset was formed.
t. familiar with vatniks' attitude
No.5887 KONTRA
>>5876>Alexander NevskyThe central point of this movie past the window dressings hints is that Russians believe in magic.
This is why this mindset is bad:
>>5881There is no rhyme or reason to what the exact beliefs are, they vary based on the where the political psychosis machine lures them.
They lure them by manipulating their national tendency of magical thinking.
Russians have a high tolerance towards what causes them awe. Russians fear and respect power because of its otherworldly capacities.
We need to go beyond the magic of the Russian state. Where they fed a hundred, post-war mobilized social democratic European foreign aid will feed millions, but, to really eradicate their loyalty to their mythos, and truly claim the Russian Heavenly Mandate, we need to destroy bigger cities than their previous master did. Baerbock already declared that a neutral China is taking the side of the agressor.
14/82 No.5894 KONTRA
>Anonimity causes the Ukraine thread to come alive
Really activates your almonds...
No.6597
>>6592>accident So what? Killary Clinton's opponents keep suiciding, lol.
No.6599
>>6592German news say he's confirmed dead
No.6600 KONTRA
>>6599So it seems. Rest in piss Priggy.
>>6597This post hits different after listening to the "golden age of assholes" thing I linked earlier. "So what?" Lmao...
No.6603
How many former friends will Putin need to sacrifice to make the 3 day SMO a success?
No.6604
>>6603I wanted to post a reply, but I can't find the Rügenwalder Mühle guy anymore.
No.6611
>>6610The thieves played your patriots like a damn fiddle.
No.7733 KONTRA
Early 2022:
Russia (with proxies) quickly occupies less than a fifth of Rest-Ukrainian clay, most successfully so in the south through Perekop, but fails to capture the capital or any other of Rest-Ukraine's most populous cities, and fails to envelop the Donetsk front, and under enemy pressure retreats from much of northern Ukraine to more sustainable lines, enabling it to also capture Severodonetsk and Lysychansk.
September and November 2022:
Ukraine quickly de-occupies less than a fifth of said occupied clay, in the east (September) and south (November).
Around late 2022 and early 2023:
There is talk about a supposed Russian "counteroffensive", but nobody knows if and when it has begun or ended because you need a magnifying glass to find any changes in the frontline on a map of Ukraine.
Around mid-2023:
There is talk about alleged Ukrainian "counteroffensive", but nobody knows if and when it has begun or ended because you need a magnifying glass to find any changes in the frontline on a map of Ukraine, pic related. ISW puts the beginning at 12 May, Wikipedia at 8 June.
September 2023:
Attention turns to our valuable energy partners in Azerbaijan, whose shenanigans elicit an outcry and strong reactions ranging from "When we sell you arms, you will have to pay the normal price for a while" (United States) to "We think you broke a promise and would like to express our concern, also pls accept our monies".
No.9138
Here, conduct your muslim jewry in this thread.
No.9141 KONTRA
>>9138can you stop shitposting one-liners please?
plus this threda is not about muslim jewry. stop derailing.
No.9142
>>9141This is the dedicated war shitposting thread. Not my fault sandniggers can't behave.
No.9149 KONTRA
>>9142ctrl+f "Israel" -> 0 matches found
ctrl+f "Palestine" -> 0 matches found
...
ctrl+f "sandniggers" -> 1 match found
seems like only you are talking about sandniggers in this thread, THOU?
stop feeding the shizo No.9155 KONTRA
>>9142It's the dedicated Ukraine serious discussion thread.
Don't fuck it up.
No.9157 KONTRA
>>9155How about I dedicate my dick to your mother? BOOYA!
*drops mic*
*turns 360 degrees*
*moonwalks away*
No.9183
Attention! There is currently an attempted coup in Russia! Russian President Vladimir Putin died this evening at his residence in Valdai. At 20.42 Moscow time, doctors stopped resuscitation and pronounced death. Now the doctors are blocked in the room with Putin’s corpse, they are being held by members of the presidential security service on the personal orders of Dmitry Kochnev, who is in touch and receives instructions from the Secretary of the Security Council of the Russian Federation Nikolai Patrushev. Security for the president's double has been beefed up. Active negotiations are underway. Any attempt to pass off a double as the president after Putin’s death is a coup.
No.9193
>>9183R.I.P.
I know this is slight derailing of the topic. And posting this question might be dangerous, since it might lead to some flooding.
On the other hand, I am genuinely interested now and it is a somewhat important information to have.
Which of all the Putin-faces was the real one?From my point of view, it always was easy to notice that it were multiple persons posing as one. But I never cared enough to dig deeper, because I am a lazy ape.
e.g.: Do I have to update the file name of the attachment and change the verb to past tense?
No.9199 KONTRA
>>9193>Hurrdurr Putin has doubles>I saw it on heute-showPutin does not need doubles. Russians do not hate their president, since the Russian president does not destroy his own country, but leads it to greatness. Putin is also not a fagot, but an actional KGB-Agent and martial artist. He can defend himself.
No.9200 KONTRA
>>9183The Russian president is not dead, this is a lie spread in social media without official sources! So not believe those lies!
No.9292
>>9200>2023>Believing official sourcesTry harder, Glowie.
No.9312
Wasn’t one double enough?
No.9363
The kike Selensky is to blame for pogroms in Russia.
No.9389
The corpse of Russian President Vladimir Putin is still in the freezer at his residence in Valdai. As they joke in the Kremlin: “Putin is the best prepared for Halloween, and he portrays a dead man in an amazingly natural way.” While the Kremlin is joking around, Nikolai Patrushev has no time for jokes; for the sixth day now he has been looking for a solution to what to do with the body of the deceased. There is no solution yet.
No.10692
URrine counter offensive failed. US military aid ran out in October. House speaker Johnson will not schedule a vote on more ruine- aid. Senile Biden will never get the 60 billions he asked for, and Trump will win the 2024 elections, then Urine is done for good!
European depots have been emptied. Shitmany keeps promising money, but thanks to the leftist-green government and their expensive green leftist spending on welfare and green bullshit, shitmany is bankrupt and they cannot pass a budget, so the German promises are worthless. The leftist-green government bankrupted Germany in just two years!
The people are utterly feed up with refugees, niggers, tolerance, overboard spending, inflation, the
fake Corinna plandemic, and never-ending military support for the corrupt clown pretending to be president of a made-up country. That's why they elected wilders in the Netherlands, why they will vote for Trump in the us, why France will see a le Pen or Marechal as president very soon, why Björn Höcke will become chancellor of Germany, etc.
And then, Urine will be finished, the niggers will be beaten back, the EUdSSR will be dissolved, the green bullshit will be ended, and if the liberals cry about it and protest, they will go to jail for it! They will be punished! All the asylum help-helpers and game democrats are going to get their bill! It won't be long now!
No.10719
Watched a TV Interview on CNN with the father of a Jewish hostage. He has pretty previously said he hoped he daughter was dead, now be shed crocodile tears after she was returned. Be also claimed she has lice. But everyone knows that Palestinians are clean people, unlike Jews!
> We entered the synagogue, which was packed with the greatest stinking bunch of humanity I have ever seen. When we got about halfway up, the head rabbi, who was dressed in a fur hat similar to that worn by Henry VIII of England and in a surplice heavily embroidered and very filthy, came down and met the General…. The smell was so terrible that I almost fainted and actually about three hours later lost my lunch as the result of remembering it…. Of course, I have seen them since the beginning and marveled that beings alleged to be made in the form of God can look the way they do or act the way they act.
This is what general Patton had to say about Jews! So if the girl has lice, she certainly did not get them as a hostage of the Palestinians.
He is most likely a dishonest liar! CNN is biased!
No.10739
>>10734Based Polacks are anti-Urine now! Everyone hates Brussels, EUdSSR and NATO are done! It won't be long now! After Ukraine collapses, Russia can invade Finland and the Baltic states, it will show everyone what a fake scam NATO and EUdSSR was!
No.10760 KONTRA
>>10746Do you love the Brussels beurocracy? They will disown millions across Europe. They want to force homeowners to get "upgrades" to their homes most homeowners will not be able to afford. All in the name of the giant climate-scam. This will push millions of homes onto the market, those homes will be bought be "international" "investors" for cheap, and people will be forced to pay enormous rents. Rents will go up to the point where people will be able to afford food after rent, but nothing more. Everyone will just work to keep fed and a roof over their head, just so the 1% can keep getting richer, this is why they invented global warming. And dumb sheeple who fall for the scam think this is "capitalism". Wrong. It's communism, line in the UDSSR, where no one owned anything and everything belonged to "the government". Newsflash: "the government" are people, retards.
No.10784
>>10760I really don't know how to handle you.
> They will disown millions across Europe.yes
> They want to force homeowners to get "upgrades" to their homes most homeowners will not be able to afford.Jein (
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcV7VN3l3bY [~5min])
> All in the name of the giant climate-scam. no
> This will push millions of homes onto the market, those homes will be bought be "international" "investors" for cheap, and people will be forced to pay enormous rentsyes
> Rents will go up to the point where people will be able to afford food after rent, but nothing more.yes
> Everyone will just work to keep fed and a roof over their head, just so the 1% can keep getting richeryes
> this is why they invented global warmingno
> And dumb sheeple who fall for the scam think this is "capitalism".yes
> Wrong. It's communismno
> "the government" are peopleyes
> retardsyes
You do realize you are being used as a dumb tool propagating the propaganda of those trying to disown Europe and Germany in order to bring our region down to the 3rd world standards of american capitalism? Look up who is flooding your propaganda outlets with monzeys.
You are actively helping establishing exactly that which you try to warn us about.Look what capitalism has done to San Fransisco for example: all buildings are empty. rents are too high for any local to pay. the streets in front of these empty buildings are filled with homeless people.
this is what you want.and
you are going to be one of the homeless drug addicts occupying the streets in front of the empty buildings owned by outside "investors".
I
really do hope you are a monzey-
slave of your capitalistic government (≠ democratic government) and you make coin with your shit posting.
→ 🚪
at least it's somewhat tangent to ukraine conflict... and not totally off-topic No.10786
>>10784>capitalism is when the government takes everything from you and gives it to their friendsno, that is what we call communism, and that is exactly what communists did wherever they took power. Then, they sent the true believers like you to the camp. This is the best thing about it: knowing that you will go to the camps, not first, but at least second.
No.10787 KONTRA
>>10786> lacking any form of comprehensive reading ability> lacking any form of cohesive pattern recognition> t. delusional shizo⇒ 🚪
No.10791 KONTRA
>>10788I am aware + you are late.
>>10788> 16:55:45>>>/meta/441> 16:53:08 No.10811 KONTRA
>>10797Are you dumb and think international Jews are locals or are you dumb and think the green/Brussels plans only apply to foreigners?
No.10812 KONTRA
>>10811Nevermind, it's probably both, you are a very recognizable poster and one of the biggest idiots I ever witnessed. Why is everyone on here so fucking stupid? I wish I could sentence people for death in grounds of idiocy. I swear, none of you would be left alive.
No.10840
> Ukrainian parliament canceled the presidential elections
> Deputies of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine signed a declaration on the inadmissibility of holding elections in wartime. The document was adopted by representatives of all factions and groups of the Ukrainian parliament, Strana.ua reports.
No.10841 KONTRA
>>10840Such is 'democracy'. Meanwhile, elections in Russia will take place.
No.10854
>>10841Fabricated elections
No.10866 KONTRA
>>10840Is this surprising? Have there been elections in a country that is under attack/suffering from war in its own territory in the past?
>>10841What was undemocratic about it? To me it sounds like what happens in a political system that is called democracy today, namely representatives voting in a parliament.
No.10872 KONTRA
>>10866You talk of 'elected representatives'. It is usually implied that elections are repeated at regular intervals.
No.10876 KONTRA
>>10872I don't think you understand that democracies are quite fragile political systems in comparison to other forms of political systems when it comes to self-termination. Albeit even democracies try to find ways to be defensive and maintain their status as ruling political system.
Did the electives vote against voting itself or just against voting during the war situation? I don't know but I could imagine that elections were simply postponed not ended forever. You tell me more about the details.
No.10878 KONTRA
>>10876Never mind, the quote even implies it was limited to the war situations. This process seems to tick all formal democratic boxes.
No.10881 KONTRA
>>10878>we end elections>only until the forever-war is overlol
No.10890 KONTRA
>>10881When did they proclaim they end elections?
No.11007
A German Tank was annihilated in Russia, manned by Germans! A Russisch general who speaks German talked to a dying mechanic who confessed that the entire crew of the tank considered of Bundeswehr soldiers!
The fascists have learned nothing from WWII.
No.11009 KONTRA
>>11007I can validate this claim. It was my cousins actually.
No.11017 KONTRA
>>11009I thank Baerbock's stormtroopers for their eternal sacrifice. Rest in Valhalla.
No.11026 KONTRA
>Families of conscripts have written to Russian President Vladimir Putin to describe how servicemen are being sent to a “bloodbath” in Avdiivka
Russians are beyond parody.
No.11038 KONTRA
lol, Russian trolls called leftist-green German Minister of economy and asked him question, and he answered willingly and spoke about government secrets at length. They made the entire call public.
Among others, he talked about how Germany is planning to support the Ukrainian government.
Germany is so pathetic, the entire world can only laugh about this ridiculous shit-show of a country.
No.11063 KONTRA
>>11038>Germany is planning to support the Ukrainian governmentWow, crazy, first time German government officials make such an announcement in two years of war.
No.11093
USA announced the last aid package to Ukraine. The money has run out. Unless Congress votes on new funding, there are no more weapons for Ukraine. But there will be no be finding. Americans are done paying for another war half a world away that has nothing to do with them and seeing their weaponry wasted while America itself is increasingly defenseless.
Biden has hit record lows of popularity due to the disastrous inflation, the completely out of hand cost of housing, poverty and immigration. A second Trump presidency is all but guaranteed.
Without American weaponry, Ukraine will collapse in a few weeks.
Once America withdraws, NATO will collapse and EU will be finished. What countries in Europe will still have anti-Russian governments in 2027? Maybe the UK, but that's a big maybe.
No.11190
> German Chancellor Scholz called rising energy prices “the consequences of Russian imperialism,” writes BILD.> According to him, it was Putin who “stopped gas supplies through undamaged gas pipelines,” which is why “50% of Germany’s gas supply was called into question.” In response, the Germans found new ways to supply gas and accelerated the construction of LNG terminals in the north of the country, Scholz noted.I thought it's Europe who sanctioned Russian gas supplies?
>>11026> The 83-year-old founder of the Paros cafe on Baumanskaya, Susanna Khristoforovna Tapaltsyan, asked the court to oblige Russian President Vladimir Putin to adopt her, her daughter Lusine told MSK1.RU. The editors have a copy of the lawsuit sent to the Tverskoy Court in Moscow.she did it ironically but still No.11196
>>11190There are no European sanctions on Russian gas, but on Russian oil. Europe continues to import Russian gas, through pipelines and LNG.
During the 2010s, gazprom strategically acquired the biggest gas storages in Europe. From about 2019, they kept reserves stored in Europe low, in what in retrospect can only be viewed as a preparatory move. See
https://www.argusmedia.com/en/news/2326914-gazproms-european-gas-storage-empties-outOn the first of March 2022, Russia decided that delivery contracts do not matter and demanded payment in roubles, in violation of existing contracts. 'unfriendly countries' unwilling to pay in roubles would no longer be supplied. Poland, Bulgaria, and the Netherlands refused to pay in roubles and were promptly cut off. See
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/gazprom-says-it-halts-gas-supplies-poland-bulgaria-payments-row-2022-04-27/During the summer of 2022, Russia reduced deliveries through the north stream pipeline, ostensibly due to maintenance of a compressor turbine. The turbine had to be maintained in Canada and Russia blocked re-import for weeks, while publicly claiming it could not be imported due to western sanctions.
See:
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/kremlin-says-gazprom-would-like-nord-stream-turbine-back-needs-documents-2022-08-04/Quote:
> Siemens Energy also told Gazprom there was no need for an official sanctions explanation from the European Commission and that the United Kingdom had also confirmed to Gazprom in writing that there were no sanctions preventing the return of the turbine, Kommersant said.During the summer of 2022, gas deliveries were stopped completely and restarted at reduced rates alternately, due to various conveniently timed maintenance-issues, then halted completely in late August. In late September, someone blew holes into the pipeline, probably to make sure that no one can be tempted to restart it.
See
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60131520Russian gas deliveries to Europe continue at a low level through remaining pipelines and LNG, see
https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/russian-pipeline-gas-exports-europe-down-67-nov-so-far-reuters-calculations-2023-11-16/While Russia has not publicly announced sanctions, the reduction of reserves, the unilateral changes to the delivery conditions, the interruption of deliveries under pretexts, the unilateral termination of deliveries, etc. factually amount to sanctions.
I have gained the impression that the Russian government and pro-Russian parties in Europe are in the habit of claiming that the counter-sanctions Russia implements were implemented by the other side. For the record, there is no European embargo on food exports to Russia, but a Russian embargo on food imports.
See
https://freepolicybriefs.org/2019/10/14/the-russian-food-embargo-five-years-later/ No.11262
Belgian F-16 escorted Russian fighters over the Baltic sea.
What are they doing there? Since when is Belgium on the Baltic? NATO is a offensive and aggressive. Russia should destroy all NATO airplanes over the Baltic sea, NATO shit has no place there! These weak shit countries are so scared of Russia they run to America for help, because they are so pathetic! This proves their weakness and Russia will exploit this weakness! NATO collapse is immanent. It was promised to not expand NATI, but the Americans lied! Germany lied! They will be made to pay for their lies once they run out of Ukrops to push to the front!
No.11264 KONTRA
>>11263>NATO's structureIt is a lie. They are all American satellite states. Now Finland is an American satellite state, too. Because Finland is so afraid of Russia, it became an American satellite state and will now get American bars were the capitalists from New York and Washington sent their black soldiers. Finland will be occupied. Finland is now c****ed. Rather than face Russia, Finland bend over and became homosexual prostitutes for Ametica.
No.11265
>>11262Belgium is playing very dangerous games. One day they'll find their "country" turned into radioactive rubble.
>>11264The situation is not looking good for Finland.
Our resident Fin however is a RAPPER. He's looking forward to seeing African-American soldiers on Finnish soil. He'll say to them:
-- Yo yo yo whatsupp nigga?
And one of the soldiers will respond:
-- Sorry for occupying your country. I've joined the army solely to feed my family, it's hard to make ends meet since racist cops killed my wife and my brother.
He'll show photos of his children, his "house" in trailer park, his skinny hungry cat. This will be a life-changing moment for the Fin. He'll forget all the NATO propaganda which is currently filling his brain. And join the Special Military Operation to free Ukraine from neonazi junta.
No.11313
>>11264Does this mean that those stories from club swagger were sent to us from the future?
No.11369
>>11313>club swagger?Is that the club where Sanna Marin goes to meet new male friends?
No.11378
Based Orbán Viktor will prevent EU from starting negotiations with Ukraine and giving Ukraine money. EU is a bunch of cucks and they cannot do anything without him, he's got them by the balls. Servs them right for trying to force their homo crap and niggers on Hungary!
No.11424
>>11385>>11388You might not like it, but this is what actual peace activists look like.
No.11935
Bad week for the drug-addicted actor acting as president of a break-away Russian province.
- Hungary blocks EU-aid, no more money
- Congress blocks American aid, no more weapons
- Russia bombs cities across the country
Ukraine has lost, Putin has proven it once more, and the west knows it, they just are not ready to about it yet.
The world order with America as a super-power has been broken, the west is weak and corrupt and America is weak and corrupt. Europe is one giant, pathetic joke! Russia and China are the new superpowers.
No.11974 KONTRA
>>11935How does wectern weakness make the swamp tsar a superpower?
No.11989
>>11974Because the swamp tsar can project power globally. See this? These Africans fighters wave the Russian flag, because Russia helped with the liberation from the French yoke.
The whole world hates the preachy, gay, weak, pathetic west! Democracy is over! So is veganism, homosexuality, the welfare state, the whole degenerate structure of society that can only lead to collapse and ruin. Africans can see this. Europeans can't. Because Europeans are now dumber than niggers!
No.11990 KONTRA
>>11935Hungary blocked the collective EU aid, but the EU still decided to take out a loan for Ukraine, but instead of a system of collective responsibility only Germany and France will bear the burden or repaying it.
No.11998
>>11990So? This is good! The EU is failing and the leftist-green German government is causing a bankruptcy! This destroys the EU, the current German government and the Euro!
No.12171
>>12159>4Pretty smart Idea. But I dont know, how good this will work in public.
No.12553 KONTRA
>>12551European Support is worthless. Europe is weak and does not have weapons. It's only some Euro colored paper and blankets. American support is over, because Democrats hate white people more than they support Ukraine and they will do nothing to stop immigrants from flooding the US. Gotta have muh diversity.
After Trump will be elected, support for Ukraine will be over. With Biden rating well below fifty percent, a second Trump presidency is certain. After years of inflation and recession, Americans want to put America first. They don't want to see their money squandered on some way in some Europeon shithole they have nothing to do with. Trump will undo NATO. It was always a scam, anyway. Like America would risk nuclear war over Shitmany or Pooland lol. Who is even dumb enough to believe that? Oh yeah, apparently, Finns are. And Swedes. Both nations now compete for the title of 'dumbest country in the world'.
No.12559 KONTRA
Forgot to bost this video. Though a longer and translated version is sadly too large. The main takeaway in that was that "not everything went according to plan" :D
>>12553>European Support is worthless. Europe is weak and does not have weapons. It's only some Euro colored paper and blankets.Ask your caretaker to read you this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_aid_to_Ukraine_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War No.12565 KONTRA
>>12551It's pretty amazing how incredibly retarded the russian tank crew is reacting (or rather non-reacting) here.
A shitty IFV shouldn't be able to bully a grown-up tank like that.
The again, it's the Bradley, against russian armor commanded by russians.
No.12585
>>12559
> Hurrdur look how many stuffs poorope deliveredThe list contains lots of inferior ancient garbage systems in very low numbers. All of the German leopard, PZH 2000, etc. have long since been destroyed, which was not hard for the Russians, since there were only like five of each to begin with.
All meaningful support came from America, and it's now gone, and it won't be coming back. Europe is open for Russian invasion. Finland and Sweden could have been neutral, but they decided they'd Rather be invaded with the Rest of the bunch.
President Trump vowed to not defend EU and he will demand compensation from Europe. Americans are done paying for Pooropes savety and they are done with forever wars. The nigger Obongo was ready to waste Americans money and had Americans killed in defense of a bunch of smelly cheese-eating fagots, and Biden might be ready to do it because he's senile and poops his pants. But president Trump will cut Europe off, and then the fagit fake democracies with gay "marriage" and be welfare for every nigger will be a thing if the past, and the leftist pro-american cucks will be sent to the camps!
No.13183 KONTRA
>>13044>The title of Joseph Darda’s new book, How White Men Won the Culture Wars, may land awkwardly for weary followers of recursive debates over cancel culture, wokeness, and the like. The loudest and most visible partisans in these battles are aggrieved white men, insisting that they’re scapegoats in unhinged identity-driven witch hunts and eagerly putting themselves forward as martyrs in ugly confrontations over free speech. How is it, then, that this demographic emerged as the victors of the modern American culture wars and managed to leverage that success into ongoing, ever-renewable plaints of grievance?Seems like the article is talking about you.
>As white Vietnam vets struggled with the challenges of adapting to an American social order transformed by the politics of anti-discrimination and cultural representation, they were not simply echoing the well-worn refrains of white reaction. Rather, as Darda shows in this wide-ranging and provocative tour through the post-Vietnam cultural and political scene, they fashioned their own new brand of therapeutically inflected grievance politics, poised to capitalize in a host of ways on America’s emerging postliberal backlash.So from what I gathered briefly looking at the article these people returned to a country in which the civil rights movememnt happenedm in which "1968" and the so called cultural revolution happened, in which a therpeutical turn and anti psychiatry happened. And they tried to build on that change. It is about middle class men who went to war (it is nout about the working class and black people who went to war) and are now traumatized by it and feel discriminated or use the argument of discrimination for themselves as white american middle class returning from a war in which the US have been the agressor.
Has this got to do anything with ukraine? no.
Are you a whiny bitch that thinks he is has to endure immense sufferings through "cultural revolutions" of "diversity" and feminism that also is analyzed in the article? yes.
No.13274 KONTRA
>>13044> from VietnamTheir government sent them to a rainforest to fight a war they didn't understand, and didn't know how to win, with booby-traps, mines and ambushes around every corner, where the event treated POWs to Lubyanka/Concenteation-camp-like conditions, to liberate completely alien people who didn't want to be liberated and hated their guts. How dare they pretend that it sucked for them, I mean they are white men and all, so it's really their own fault, since the grocery was white men, too, and who can even tell two white men from another?
No.13283 KONTRA
>>13183I swear to god, you are mentally impaired.
> Nothing to do with UkraineOh yes, and the omsk-ball made it clear.
Ukrainians are fighting to be part of the 'West' were we publish such bullshit articles and are proud of it.
I predict that the west will publish similar articles about the Ukrainian soldiers who lose limbs to be part of said West. They are white men, after all, so why complain about being a samowar? They STILL are white men, right? So they should stfu, these sexist fascist pigs, always acting like they got it tough just because they have no arms and legs, always demanding prosthetics and wheelchairs and shit, like THEY are the victims!
Maybe you can take a few cues and start writing such an article now, you'll be at the avant-garde.
The rest of your post is a whole lot of words to say
> Ok, maybe the Vietnam war sucked, but only for Black vets and I am being very generous here, for white working class vets, but there, we must draw a line.Anti-psychiatry, by the way, is a stupid idea, because it leaves people to fend for themselves who are not able to fend for themselves, due to mental issues. Many of them end up homeless, drug addicted, and often enough, both. The arguments in favor of it are usually made from a naively idealistic perspective and can be summed up as follows
> Dude I mean like nuthouses are total institutions like what is this place Nazi Germany have you seen one flew over the cuckoos nest way out man hand me the bongThe reason such arguments have gained traction is that anti-psychiatry is cheap, and when you love a small government, psychiatric hospitals are a place for cutting costs. Start with people who are unable to get their own lives into order. Because they sure as hell can't fight back, they are busy arguing with imaginary people while waiting in line at the soup kitchen. But that's all in the name off freedom! Nurse rachet won't be able to abuse any insane people while they sleep under bridges!
No.13300 KONTRA
>>13283You apparently did not read the article and understand what is addressed in the article. It has nothing to do with Ukraine. My judgment about Omks in that post is also true for you. You are in alignment with what is the object of analysis.
>anti psychiatry blabladidn't read, not relevant but a distraction
No.13310
>>13300>It has nothing to do withYes, or does, and if you say otherwise, you are a bigoted reactionary. Ukraine is a prime example of white people monopolizing the victim status when the true victims of the Ukraine war are women of color. Go die in a fire, you racist.
> Did not readSo you are unwilling to discuss the crimes of white psychiatrist? It is obvious that a sexist racist like you would prevent discourse on this topic. I really don't like your reactionary kind, maybe Go Back zu Facebook to spread your hatred for PoCs and women, fucking racist pig.
No.13321 KONTRA
>>13310>So you are unwilling to discuss I'm unwilling to diverge from the object of interest in that discussion. Go entertain your ADHD brain somewhere else. And what is more, you still don't grasp the general idea of the article. Maybe you can show me some more Pareto distributions instead of performing unbearable idiocy.
No.13327
>>13321It is not my task to educate an absolute imbecile. It was a mistake to text you this much, since it allows you to pretend to be less stupid and destructive than you really are, which could seriously harm people who fall for your act.
No.13331
>>13327>It was a mistake to text you this much,I can only hope that you will shut up completely in the near future.
It would already help if your posts will not be riddled with lame-ass insults. How old are you? 17? You make yourself look idiotic that way.
See the mp4 attached, that is how you come across to most people and it is not their fault tbh. You can do the work yourself. You are neither doing a favor to yourself nor other others by acting like this.
No.13336
>>13331> 80/20 rule -> it's economics -> must be wrong> You make yourself look like an idiotI insult you argument little piece of shit because you deserve every insult in existence.
You know nothing about statistics, or anything else, but you demand to be talked seriously, like you were an educated adult. You reserve the right to talk down to you're betters, like you were not a fake scientist, a fake person and a lier.
You pretend to not understand the connection between that article and Ukraine, but you understand very well.
> It doesn't mean that at all> No that's not in the articleWrong. You were explained multiple times, the only thing that had increased is your facade of smugness.
No.13337 KONTRA
>>13336
>You were explained multiple timesYour incoherent short-breathed ramblings explained nothing. You just made up something in order to attack that and make a connection to Ukraine. Still don't know what the connection is except you being ass blasted that the word white has been used.
While I wasn't aware of the Pareto principle being established as describing a certain statistical distribution this does not make your ramblings concerning this article correct.
While I now know that there are distributions that are named after Pareto, you still haven't answered if these distributions are true in the case of mating No.13343
>>13337>kontra in systemkontraTyping this on my phone, gonna try to keep it short:
In public discourse, the overarching goal of Ukraine's war effort is presented roughly as Ukraine not being a Russian satellite state, but being part of the collective west
Ukrainian soldiers risk their health and lives for this patriotic (patriotic without definition, also without quotation marks, after long deliberation) cause, which their government orders them to do. I am quite certain that many of them will have some form of shell-shock, PTSD, name it as you want.
What does this article have to say about American soldiers who fought for the cause of keeping Vietnam from becoming a Chinese satellite state, and who came back with some parts in their head slightly loose? roughly: Damn those white people for soldiering while white and not liking every minute of it, then not keeping quiet about not liking every minute of it. They only faked trauma, obviously, to keep non-white and working class people down, the sneaky bastards.
I disagree. In my opinion, making these allegations is rather crappy behavior towards Vietnam veterans, the majority of whom did not ask to fight this war, but were ordered to do so by their government, and lost their health in the process. Now, 6 decades later, in their old age, they get told that they should have kept quiet about their trauma and should not even have sought treatment, because they, being white men, did not have anything to complain about in the first place.
The collective west apparently is a cultural sphere were we first draft people to fight a war, then decide the war is too expensive to win, then decide to tell them (5-6 decades later) that it was pretty racist of them to not keep quiet about being traumatized.
It is not obvious to me that great sacrifices should be made to be part of a cultural sphere where we publish such articles and take them seriously.
Suppose Vietnam vets, like WWII vets had kept quiet. What could we write about? I can make up a line of argument: the white middle-class vets kept quiet about their experiences. They internalized their trauma. Being white and middle class, they had the resources to cover it all up. This led to society having a completely distorted image of war and set the bar for how vets should be able to re-integrate into society impossibly high for non white-and working class veterans. These men would have urgently needed treatment for their war-trauma, but the behavior of white men had made trauma invisible.
And I still believe damning essays will be written about veterans of the Ukraine war, in due time, and they will find that it was, ultimately, not worth it, because what will they have gained from being shelled day and night? Being made the bogey-men.
No.13347 KONTRA
>>13343>kontra in systemkontraSymbolic function, Ernst.
---
Use quotes from the article. Otherwise, I simply assume you do guesswork tbh.
>Vietnam veterans, the majority of whom did not ask to fight this war, but were ordered to do so by their government, and lost their health in the process.The article does not deny the suffering of soldiers in Vietnam or that people lost their health or died or whatever. If you think that is the case, give a quote.
1) The article's object is among other things a demographic, with three identity markers: white, middle class, man
1.1) This demographic seems to play an important argument for the whole article. The soldiers of Vietnam are a prototype for a development that seems specific to this demographic. Manly, this demographic has been a winner in the so-called culture wars. It is a book review btw, so you actually would need to read the book.
1.2) This demographic the article seems to say made itself heard despite the "heavily nonwhite and working-class makeup of the conscript army in Vietnam" that did not get heard when it comes to talking about returning from Vietnam and what it means to return from Vietnam and how they were dealt with upon return from that war in the USA of the 1970s post civil rights movement, feminist politics etc ("1968")
How will that be akin to the ongoing war in Ukraine where neither army has a large nonwhite demographic? Nor will Ukraine have a civil rights movement while this war is going on. First bullshit of yours eliminated.
>Now, 6 decades later, in their old age, they get told that they should have kept quiet about their trauma and should not even have sought treatment, Quote pls. Otherwise, I doubt the article says they should have shut up and keep to themselves. It is probably about how they did it and something was wrong with it. These are two different things but you don't grasp that it is two different things. Hence you come to your broad brush buzzword conclusions that do not make sense because you don't understand the structure if the argument and its differentiation. You see words you don't like but you don't seem to understand the argument that is made with these words, the fine lining so to speak.
>because they, being white men, did not have anything to complain about in the first place.Again, I would say the article is about what and how they did it, not that they had something to say about the war.
Also looking briefly over the article I see that issues of war crimes and guilt play a role for example, things that can be talked about and that can be argued about. For example, there seems to be an argument that their notions and diagnoses of trauma functioned as a sort of absolution from personal guilt about massacring viet people. This function is possible through the therapeutic turn of the 1970s for example, I could imagine. Because this has had to happen and the retunring soldiers could built in that new vocabulary and knowledge and 'make use of it'
indicating that it must not have happened with absolute clear conscious intendWithout quotes that your interpretation can refer to, I won't discuss or read the article in full. Why? Because I don't want to waste my time. Without quotes talking about a text becomes an arduous task and unprecise undertaking that only produces wishy-washy sentences. You need to highlight the arguments in the text for everybody you address and not just in your head. But that means work and takes time. Just blurting out sentences is faster. It happens here all the time and I don't even will exclude myself from it, but I have engaged with texts that way in the past because it was part of my education.
No.13350
>>13347
> demographicsWhere are the numbers? I see no numbers. No numbers, no demographics.
> Conditions were ripe for returning Vietnam vets to engineer this dramatic change in status. implying they faked in a planned and coordinated effort
> to engineer a change in statusWhich led to the
> white resurgence
>Other returning Vietnam veterans, meanwhile, were coping with the challenges of reintegrating into an America society implying white veterans were not coping with reintegrating. they got home and got busy and
> engineered> the white resurgence
>the most famous among them, John McCain (another future senator and presidential candidate), built a political career on the idea that his sacrifice and suffering were emblematic of his generation of veteransMeaning he should not have had a political career after returning from Vietnam, or kept quiet about his experience, lest men with similar experiences might identify with him
>From this lily-white, mediagenic presentation of returning prisoners of warMeaning those prisoners should not have been so god-damn white. Maybe they could have worn black-face?
>meanwhile, a new cohort of Vietnam authors, all white and male, such as Tim O’Brien, Larry Heinemann, and Robert Olin Butler, gained canonical stature in American letters—meaning they should not have been published, because they were white Americans and
>[the] flood of literary recreations of the war crowded out memoirs and fictions composed by Vietnamese writers
>How will that be akin to the ongoing war in Ukraine where neither army has a large nonwhite demographicThe Ukraine war of white people overshadows the Yemen civil war, damn those white slavs claiming all the victimhood. Diminished Ukrainian grain exports force African women and children into starvation, they are the real victims, and Ukrainians talk about their suffering? See how you can always blame X for Y while white?
>on the notion of post-traumatic stress disorder—a new psychological diagnosis that took root after a nurse in a Boston VA hospital treated a veteran who’d taken part in the infamous massacre of some 500 Vietnamese villagers in My LaiImplying PTSD was inserted in the DSM for political reasons, to have some diagnosis to exonerate a war criminal. As if it wasn't a thing with returning WWI and WWII vets of all nations, just known under different names.
> The attribution of PTSD to vets and the white men who identified with them, most of whom did not serve and did not suffer from PTSD” worked “as a kind of entitlement, Darda writes, “a belief that something they deserved had been taken from them, had been taken and must be returned. It encouraged a feeling of entitlement through a sense of discrimination.So diagnosing PTSD (which, apparently, can only be caused by having served in Vietnam) in white men allowed them to feel as victims, in the case of Vietnam veterans as victims of the war they were victims of. Can't have that, right?
Utterly deranged.
No.13352
>>13350The impression that you feel personally criticized by this article makes you feel like you are a victim of some witch hunt, no?
>Where are the numbers? I see no numbers. No numbers, no demographics. Demographics is a word (also) used to simply label a group within a population. Old people or children are a demographic, too. Old people that still drives cars is a demographic as well, a slice of a population. What has this got to do with numbers? Just because statistical methods are used in demography this does not mean that the word demographic has to automatically come with numbers for that group. Also look into the book and not a book review if you want details, duh.
Let's see what is the basis to even write the book.
There are
>recursive debates over cancel culture, wokeness, and the like.These debates feature white men as
>the loudest and most visible partisans in these battles are aggrieved white men, insisting that they’re scapegoats in unhinged identity-driven witch hunts and eagerly putting themselves forward as martyrs in ugly confrontations over free speech. which is basically you on EC all the time as a side note. most of your postings actually center exactly around thus topic and how you and others have to suffer through this battles and which hunts that want to allegedly destroy you and your identity. You have become a victim, you are being discriminated, not blacks or womenSo the article or book wnats to answer this question in reference to the situation described above
>How is it, then, that this demographic emerged as the victors of the modern American culture wars and managed to leverage that success into ongoing, ever-renewable plaints of grievance?But you don't attack the argument that is made to answer this question. Instead, you go on to make hurr durr they white they have to shut up and never open their mouth or do anything. You twist words or ignore them to prove that the article also participates in the witch hunt and white middle class Vietnam soldiers are being silenced (which historically is simply not true since they gained a lot of attention and the article explains why that is and also criticizes it)
No.13353
>>13350>>13352
>Returning Vietnam vets mimicked the rhetoric and strategies of the era’s homegrown protest movements while developing a powerful narrative of abandonment and trauma to convey their own sense of disaffection. And in spite of the heavily nonwhite and working-class makeup of the conscript army in Vietnam, the dominant image of the Vietnam vet became a white, middle-class one.The book according to the article makes the argument that the "1968" culture war and the methods and forms of protests developed by black people, women and others during that time were used by the returning white middle-class vietnam soldiers whose experience dominated as an image of the vietnam vet despite there having been other demographics that made a large part of the vietnam army, for example white working class men, black (working class) men and probably others, dunno, did not read the book.
>As white Vietnam vets struggled with the challenges of adapting to an American social order transformed by the politics of anti-discrimination and cultural representation, they were not simply echoing the well-worn refrains of white reaction. Rather, as Darda shows in this wide-ranging and provocative tour through the post-Vietnam cultural and political scene, they fashioned their own new brand of therapeutically inflected grievance politics, poised to capitalize in a host of ways on America’s emerging postliberal backlash.White middle class vietnam soldiers returned to a US society whose cultural and social make up has changed, and they had to adapt to something that was kinda foreign to them.
The author also says that they developed a grievance politics that capitalizes on a backlash against the developments that happened in the 1960s, the change in social and cultural make up that came about with the culture wars (civil rights movement, feminist movement and so on)
No.13354
>>13350>implying they faked in a planned and coordinated effort No, engineering merely means they could work on a change thanks to certain conditions. How coordinated that was is not mentioned at that point in the article. You usually have to read the whole article and not rely on the summary sentences at the beginning of a paragraph if you look for details.
>Which led to the "white resurgence"The first paragraph already deals with a condition for that change in status through a discourse of
>white ethnic revivalThis discourse as I understand runs parallel to events in the 1960s mentioned above and in this discourse asserts a
>new cultural status on behalf of a cohort of twentieth-century immigrants—Polish, Italian, Greek, and Slovak Americans (or PIGS, in the provocative coinage of white ethnic theorist and eventual neoconservative theologian Michael Novak)—who bore limited culpability for the original sin of Black slavery. So these whites say they cannot be blamed for the slavery of black people, they are not WASP but late white immigrants.
you probably want to hear from me what I think about that, if that is not true!!!!. And yes, you cannot not make them responsible for the slavery/Atlantic triangle of the US
>the white immigrant experience “turned white people into minorities, innocent and self-made,So this discourse frames "PIGS" as minorities who had to build their way up in this society. The faced challenges and they equate these challenges with the challenges that black and brown people faced. As PIGS they understood themselves as equally discriminated and challenged as black on brown people and attribute their failure 'for making it' to cultural background and choices. The author thinks that this is wrong since they have been and still are differences. That PIGS did not face the same discrimination as black and brown people during that time.
So basically there is a discourse on white ethnicity by whites that reframes whites as PIGS and discriminated and that is one thing the vets capitalized on.
Now let's come to the next and probably last paragraph because it shows how meager your reading comprehension is or how lazy and selective your reading was in order to find arguments for your ramblings
>Other returning Vietnam veterans, meanwhile, were coping with the challenges of reintegrating into an America society that seemed ashamed of the failed Southeast Asian war—and indifferent to hostile to the plight of veterans of the conflict. You said this about the paragraph:
>Other returning Vietnam veterans, meanwhile, were coping with the challenges of reintegrating into an America society>implying white veterans were not coping with reintegrating. The "other" references the paragraph above this one about a white vet sueing for reverse discrimination so he can get into college over a black person.
So you twists words to your liking, because the paragraph does not deny that white veterans were coping and had problems reintegrating into a society that seemed hostile towards them as they lost the war etc.
Since you only chose small snippets of text and I could already see how you twisted and selected to your liking with context and reference to the argument itself, I won't engage any further. Just to much time will be wasted. You tried to make yourself look like you did something but you did not put in work or willingness in my eyes. Wich I'm not surprised about. You come across as a person that thinks this is not necessary or generally bullshit. So why should I invest energy with such an attitude of yours?
No.13355 KONTRA
>>13350>Other returning Vietnam veterans, meanwhile, were coping with the challenges of reintegrating into an America society >implying white veterans were not coping with reintegrating. they got home and got busy and> engineered> the white resurgenceVeterans came back and struggled with reintegration and one way to reintegrate and cope with the changes and challenges faced in post 1968 US for them was apparently to fuse the thoughts a white ethnic revival discourse with methods from the culture wars of black people and women and their vocabulary (+ making use of the therapeutic turn and its methods/vocabulary to make meaning of what happened to them)
So while you think that the authors think these people did not struggle and cope and with returning from the war, the author describes exactly HOW they did struggle and cope with their return.
No.13377 KONTRA
>>13355KONDITIONIERT WIE A RATZ!
No.13383 KONTRA
>>13377DAS KANNST DU DOCH NICHT ERNSTHAFT BEHAUPTEN!