No.21157
I don't really understand why prostitution is illegal. Obviously human trafficking, forced prostitution and all should be illegal, but it seems there is no shortage of women who decide to do it on free will, like it or not. But why outlawing it completely, and not just the already illegal types? It's like outlawing all kinds of employment, because slavery exists. So the thought process here is either that it's completely impossible to separate legal/illegal prostitution (maybe true, no idea), moral butthurt, or maybe people fear that prostitution weakens the procreation drive, so it interferes with their empire expansion strategy. In that case it would basically be the same reason why many religions forbid masturbation. Testosterone must be kept high, so that men are willing to procreate / fight.
For the likely argument that the main reason for those laws is to prevent women from being exploited, I'd like to make similar arguments for total alcohol and tobacco bans. It's possible to use those recreationally and in a responsible way, but it also makes some people addicted and kills them in the long run. So better ban it for everyone.
No.21165
>>21145> What is prostitution like in your cunt tree?Formally it's illegal in Russia, but practically there are no problems with it, there are websites with prostitutes' profiles, and my friends successfully arranged meetings though them. Also there are "massage salons" for handjobs and titjobs.
No.21173
>>211571. Sex should not be a commodity but a free act of intimacy amongst consenting human beings
2. If money needs to be paid in order to obtain sexual "access" to someones body there can't be a real consensus
No.21174 KONTRA
>>21157>It's like outlawing all kinds of employment, because slavery exists.Ach Ernst.
As
>>21173 said, a body is sold and becomes a commodity. They say it's the oldest commercial sector in the world. But the thing is that it is also a sort of primal form of wage labor where you sell what is left to you: your work force / body. That's all you own, no means of production.
There is nothing to outlaw anyway, just things to be revolutionized.
> there can't be a real consensusIn a contractual society the contract you agreed to is proof of consensus and its backed by the law in that way even. You need money to survive in this world? Well you have a choice, it's a market and everybody is free to do whatever, that's only fair play.
No.21175
>>21174>In a contractual society the contract you agreed to is proof of consensus and its backed by the law in that way even.You are mixing up actual sexual consensus and consensus to let some use ones body for sexual purposes in exchange for money.
No.21176
>>21173lol. Everyone pays for sex. In fact, whores are much cheaper than girlfriends and wives, who demand you buy entire houses. For the cost of one house, you can easily fuck whores for ten years straight, each and every day, and that is without buying furniture women see fit for for habitation. (Hint: it must be bought new, it may not be cheap, it best should be custom made.) But that is not enough for women who claim to 'love' you, they will demand a mini cooper (such a cute car, and all my girlfriends have one, too! I need to drive the children to kindergarten, you can't seriously demand we walk!) and random gifts of useless things like perfume (branded, expensive, that is important) and flowers (but not from the gas station!)
But hey, they deserve that, because they like HAVE to use Makeup (branded, expensive, not the cheap stuff), and they menstruate once a month.
So it is totally justified that they demand you buy some shirts for yourself, and get new ones each and every season, like 10 to 15 pieces, at at least 65€ each, and you should drive a nice car, get a new one every three years, what are the neighbors going to think, etc.
So go and have real intimacy by becoming a walking talking atm who needs to have a successful career by kissing every ass that comes along, playing games of thrones with your 'driven and ambitious' colleagues, desperate to make a few hundred more, so you can satisfy the demands of the woman who 'loves' you and have 'real intimacy' with her.
No.21180
>>21173> 1. Sex should not be a commodity but a free act of intimacy amongst consenting human beingsOh man, left-liberalism is so annoying. Thankfully, it's practically dead by 2k25.
You consider sex sacred. It's different from other activities. You can do tutoring, work in mine or medical operation for money. Not copulation though, it shouldn't be corrupted by commercial relationships.
But what exactly are you sacralising? Passion. Sex for money is bad because prostitute may not feel passion. In 1949 when left-liberalism was still alive, de Beauvoir mentioned this "free act of intimacy between free autonomous individuals" constantly, by the middle of the book it's impossible not to see her as a fanatic repeating mantras.
In hindsight, we see that free love is a double-edged sword. Sure you can have casual sex or drop your boring husband for chad. But same way your husband can drop you for a young Philippinian or Ukrainian girl. And chad most likely will pump and dump you. And that's when left-liberals abandon the idea of free love. Well, actually it was obvious beforehand. After mantras about "free autonomous consenting individuals" de Beauvoir doesn't forget to mention that "alimony in France is outrageously small".
No.21182 KONTRA
>>21180> And chad most likely will pump and dump So you get next chad to be pumped and dump. The world is one big parade of cocks you can pick and chose from, and incels want to take that away from women and force them to have sex with average man. This is what 'patriarchy' and 'rape-culture' mean: A culture where the circumstances are such that the bottom 80% of men have a chance of getting laid.
No.21184
>>21180>Oh man, left-liberalism is so annoying.Left liberalism would be embracing the freedom to sell ones body in sex work not the demand to agree on disallowing it as a society.
>You consider sex sacred. It's different from other activities.Indeed I do.
>You can do tutoring, work in mine or medical operation for money. Not copulation though, it shouldn't be corrupted by commercial relationships.No work should be corrupted by commercial relations, but since sex is indeed (or should be) different from work this is especially true in this case, thus it has a prominent position in what work should be stripped of commercial profanity.
No.21185
>>21184> No, I'm not liberalYou're against economic freedom, but other types of freedom (for instance, sexual freedom) are the prime value for you. This is why I call you left-liberal.
> No work should be corrupted by commercial relationsDo you mean that all people should work without expecting any reward for that? It doesn't work even at scale of a hippy commune, but okay.
> since sex is indeed (or should be) different from workWhat is the difference which makes it qualitatively different?
In a world of sexual liberalism sex doesn't hold any special value, people have casual sex all the time, and this is praised by libs. So what you sacralise is merely an animal sexual drive.
No.21187 KONTRA
>>21184Do you idiotically believe some Mia-Lisa will dish out to you when you cunt-slave extra hard by repeating leftist-feminist talking-points? Or do you actually suffer from an immense case of slave morality?
No.21190 KONTRA
Chad, Stacy, cock carrousel, incel, liberal, pump and dump, etc.
A mindset polluted with abstractions. It's actually the same for academic work, battle of abstractions that with each paper become ever slightly more divorced from reality.
No.21191
>>21190Enough with abstractions, just tell:
1) How many women have you had sex with?
2) Are pro or against ban on prostitution?
No.21192
>>21185>You're against economic freedom, but other types of freedom (for instance, sexual freedom) are the prime value for you. This is why I call you left-liberal.Left liberals would be in favor of economical freedom and individual freedom, in the case of sex work I denounced both or the combination thereof. How would that make me liberal?
>Do you mean that all people should work without expecting any reward for that?No, you were refering to what you called commercialized work specifically.
>So what you sacralise is merely an animal sexual drive.Why would that be a reason to not sacralise it? Sex is very much where animal, human and godly characteristics of humanity come into play.
No.21193
>>211911. Classified, irrelevant
2. Prostitution needs to be legal, these hoes need to pay taxes.
No.21194
>>21173>Sex should not be a commodityThat's like, your opinion, man. What if the women think otherwise? Force them by law, even when it's about their own body? Personally I don't like it either, but I can't see a reason why it should be illegal, besides "we can't guarantee that there won't also be women that are forced to do it", which basically means we need to btfo everything, because we suck at law enforcement. Not exactly the proudest reason. Also what kind of prostitution would go away when it's banned? The legal or the illegal kind? Since after that last sentence I smell an NRA comparison brewing: That's not the same, because legal weapons can be abused to harm unrelated people, while legal prostitution only "harms" yourself, or the people who decided to pay for it.
>If money needs to be paid in order to obtain sexual "access" to someones body there can't be a real consensusI think most has already been said, but sex is always some kind of "deal", no matter whether it has been made in a conscious way, or by the subconscious, which decided that a partner is worthy of sex. I even go so far that I'd consider money as one of the more fair sex enablers, because you get born with your genes, but you have at least some influence in acquiring money. Of course there are also limitations, be it your upbringing, your education or your base intelligence, but at least you can put a conscious effort towards acquiring money. That makes it more fair then, let's say, your height as a male, or the size of your tits as a woman.
No.21196
>>21192> No, you were refering to what you called commercialized work specifically.How do you see non-commercialized work besides volunteering and slavery?
> How would that make me liberal?Progressives like you, whom I also call left-liberals, are in favor of sexual liberalism. They defend and encourage extremely irresponsible sexual behaviors, because sexual freedom is the main value for them.
You want to ruin your family in favor of a guy who just makes your pussy wet? You go girl! We'll make sure that your cuck pays you alimony and silence any negative opinions about you as "hate speech".
Want to have unprotected anal sex with dozens of strangers? Stunning and brave, and WHO's recommendations to limit number of sexual partners to avoid monkeypox are "problematic".
You have autogenephilia fetish? Government should pay you for hormones and operations.
In all the cases there is nothing human or godly about sex, it's just an animal drive, which should be fulfilled at all costs, because freedom to follow your desires is the most important thing. So when you say "oh no sex for money is so horrible", all you're sacralizing is a primitive animal sexual hunger. This is your god.
No.21197 KONTRA
>>21196I must sadly inform you that you appear to have super AIDS
No.21199 KONTRA
>>21197You have Superaids, I Just can tell you took the vaxx, cuck.
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) No.21239
>>21165Sounds good. How much do I have to pay for an hour of fuckings or this massage salons? I imagene your whores are very hot
No.21245
>>21193> complain about abstractions> pussy out when asked about real experience, call it irrelevant...
>>21239> How much do I have to pay for an hour of fuckings or this massage salons?Browsed the profiles and looks like the pussy stocks have plummeted since last time I checked. 5000 rub (50 euro) should be enough for an hour of classic sex with a decent chick.
> I imagene your whores are very hotI don't think that it's better than in Germany. You have plenty of Slavic prostitutes as well:
https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/plus253481548/Prostitution-In-den-Bordellen-sind-es-mittlerweile-etwa-50-Ukrainerinnen.htmlWhat about Central Asians though, are they present? And what about prices in Germany in general? Pls tell me.
No.21246 KONTRA
On the other hand, jerk-off salon is surprisingly twice as more expensive. Maybe this is for aesthetes
No.21250
>>21245I pay around 150 - 200 Euro per hour. But it is really hard to find hot girls with good Service.
Sadly most of my goto Girls have stopped working.
We mostly have massage salons with Thai-Girls, but I simply dont like them.
I have not seen one hot whore from Ukraine in my Town
No.21251
>>21250I still have access to a massage brothel that is lead by a German owner. She is doing also tantra and other esoteric shit. Good service and well selected girls. Sadly mostly on the older side. I prefer service over looks, so it is fine.
No.21253
There are brothels and whores on the streets and the internet but Ernst never sexed one.
Ernst was thinking about going to a brothel once but after seing all the trucks parked outside he didn't feel like he's in the right place.
No.21254
>>21253Do you have a better idea?
No.21255
>>21254Well, yes.
Have sex with women that won't charge you for it and masturbate in the meantime.
t. keen masturbator
No.21292 KONTRA
>>21291
Not everyone can be alpha enough to pay someone to touch you.
No.23477
In my country, prostitution was in a neutral zone regarding legality and is moving more and more to the green zone. Recently Belgium allowed sex workers to have an employment contract if they work for pimps. The issue with "neutral legality" for the State is that you can neither punish or claim taxes, so legalization is in their interest. Belgium already has Red Light zones and a popular website with many visitors for these purposes.
No.23478
>>21254The high is short-lived and devoid of affection, gets you a little bit closer to the bottom, due to the way it exposes you to various temptations. IMHO, don't bother, being a good sexless person has its merits.
No.23482 KONTRA
>>23478>mimimi I need affection>whiny-whiny-whiny be a good sexless personWhat a homo.
No.23483
Just jack off and it goes away lol, what is ein broblems
No.23484
>>23478Maybe prostitution can help to practice sex, in case someone has - in a shocking twist for imageboard lurkers - no experience, and is worried if he can get it done. Otherwise it has not much appeal for me. For me, the whole point of a sexual relationship is the woman wanting it. Having to pay someone for it is like paying people to hang out with you. You can do that, but it won't fix the underlying problem that no one wants to hang out with you.
>>23483/int/ - what is ein broblems
No.23486
>>23484>Having to pay someone for it is like paying people to hang out with you. You can do that, but it won't fix the underlying problem that no one wants to hang out with you.A good comparison.
No.23497
I genuinely can't imagine going to a prostitute and having sex.
All of my imagined scenarios involving prostitutes are deeply pathetic & sad.
Like here is this woman, who works a "blue collar" job in a sense, who had to do undignified things to survive, hardened by life. And here I am, a rose-cheeked fat IT worker clasping a handful of dollar papers, vainly imagining that they give me some kind of "power" over this woman, who's seen and lived through so much, in comparison to me, who's never left his computer chair in 30 years.
it's a farce, it's all fake. I shouldn't be getting my dick out, I should be asking this woman for life advice, and paying her for it
No.23503
>>23497>I should be asking this woman for life advice, and paying her for itI hear many prostitute didn't like it when clients talk. They want clients they can get of mechanically and be done with it. Source: my therapist worked with drug-addicted prostitutes a long time ago.
No.23504 KONTRA
>>23497>I shouldn't be getting my dick out, I should be asking this woman for life advice, and paying her for itI don't think this is the right way to think about things. The woman probably had a hard life (especially if they are a prostitute in central asia), but I don't think it is best to learn from them if you want to improve your life.
You might learn coping strategies (whether they are healthy or not might be debatable, depending on the situation).
I think that the most helpful people to learn from are those who struggled through horrible times and events in their life, started without much help (i.e. they weren't a nepo baby or had many connections - it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God, etc.), and then made it out and became successful or reached some kind of contentedness or peace.
Post-traumatic growth is somewhat similar, as struggling through highly stressful circumstances can sometimes lead to a revision of worldview and behavior i.e. no pain no gain (lol).
Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. [I know this had a slightly different meaning originally]
For me, traumatic situations lead to growth for maybe a half year and then things get worse again.
I am stuck in the eternal cycle of growth and despair.
No.23507
>>23504>I think that the most helpful people to learn from are those who struggled through horrible times and events in their life, started without much help [...], and then made it out and became successful or reached some kind of contentedness or peace.That's sorta my story, and I have no wisdom to impart on anyone.
I can't tell if the things I tried were actually the reason for the changes. I flailed around, and things changed around me, I can't trace a clear causality line that can't be also considered a coincidence.
In fact, a lot of the biggest improvements to my life seem to hinge on luck and accumulated social capital from before I was even born (parents had the means to move to city, etc.)
I guess it's all luck, the trick is to be there when the luck happens.
No.23534
>>23497Wtf? Just enjoy the sexings and be happy. I dont pay the whores for Sex, I pay them to leave
No.23538 KONTRA
>>23497I feel the same with the idea of having sex with women in general, to a lesser degree
No.23539
>>23534Women leave you alone for free. Why pay them?
No.23543
>>23486No, flawed comparison in my opinion. "Hanging out" is a symmetrical activity. But having (heterosexual) sex is asymmetrical. Woman puts a lot of effort into bearing up child, so in female psychology sex is a risky and serious matter. But for males it's just a fun pastime.
Better analogy would be lessons with a tutor or sessions with gym trainer, which are also asymmetrical activity. If it's your wife, she can do it for free for you, but otherwise it's normal to pay for them.
>>23503> I hear many prostitute didn't like it when clients talkI heard the opposite case from a friend. Prostitute didn't like that he "didn't say a single word to her".
Also he had a funny reason for going to her. He had hypochondriac thoughts that "his erection isn't hard enough", dick doctor told him that it's normal during masturbation, it should be better during sex, so the guy has checked it.
No.23549 KONTRA
>>23543Most women I met with including my gf wanted to split bills.
I guess it's more risky for women because they don't know who is an asshole but a gentleman or an asshole with creepo belief system.
No.23630 KONTRA
>>23549What is the "creepo belief system" in this case?
No.23650 KONTRA
>>23630I paid the bill, she has to dish out.
No.23657 KONTRA
>>23650Didn't know that that's a belief system
No.23666
I think that if you decide to go to a whore, you should choose a cheap street hooker. After all, this is the working class of prostitutes. If you go to an expensive escort instead, you're bourgeousie, and you pay for class-exclusiveness. It's basically the same than joining an expensive golf club to stay clear of the working class scum, not only because both activities revolve around putting things in holes.
No.23669
>>23630The whole rainbow of incelism.
No.23727
My city is garbage regarding prostitution. There is a brothel ~1 km away from my home, but there are only ugly romanian whores which are most of the time pretty unmotivated. All the whores which advertise themself on sites for visiting them at their home are ugly and/or old. Same for thai massage (many of them here tho).
The good whores are all in the big city (Berlin).
Also many brothels closed in Berlin due to Corona.
I thought about escort-service (visit at home). You pay 90 € for a hour and the Taxi but my appartment is Ernst-like always dirty and I don't want to feel ashamed when the whore sees this.
I had only a few good pay sex experiences in Germany.
Best pay sex I had was in Lisboa (really nice brazilian whore with big latina ass and pretty face. we vibed and got so well along. Also she had a luxury appartment with everything you need for nice sexenings) and next day another nice brazilian whore
Latvia was shit service but the whore looked nice
Ireland was neutral. Whore was too old and shopped their image but service was good.
Hungary ok, but I was only in a thai massage salon. Can't say anything to hungarian whores.